'Honey, You Repel Me': Advice For Couples in a Sexless Marriage

Wall Street Journal ^ | Thursday, May 15, 2003 | SUE SHELLENBARGER

[WaveThatFlag]

A few times in my 12 years writing this column, I've stumbled on a topic so unsettling to readers that it demanded a follow-up. Last month was one of those times, when my story on the problems of dual-income, no-sex marriages drew a torrent of e-mail that read as if I'd jabbed an open wound.

[fqued]

Lorianne, you wrote: "You and Utilizer are an ugly spiteful breed. Because you cannot make a cogent point you're both reduced to inventing personal biographies about people you don't know. In other words, lying.

Both of you attack me personally (which by the way is against the posting rules here ). You take beautiful thing that works and lie to turn it into something ugly because you cannot stand that someone has a good marriage and is happy.

What spiteful, hateful, ugly people you are."

Lorianne, I have read the posts on this thread since it started, and have not posted anything yet. But, to be blunt, your general attitude is beyond the pale of decency.

Come on, many, many people have tried to reason with you, and tried to help you understand. They are not spiteful and ugly. Their main problem is that they did reply and try to help you see what is truly obvious.

You owe these two, and the rest of us, an apology.

[AppyPappy]

What spiteful, hateful, ugly people you are.

What are you trying to say?

[Lazamataz]

What spiteful, hateful, ugly people you are.

What are you trying to say?

I think she is trying to say that they are spiteful, hateful, ugly people.

Just a guess, mind you.

[muggs]

Hi Nita, nice to see you too. I guess I'm just a woman of few words.

See ya all later, got to get hubby in a good mood before I have to tell him I broke the garbage disposal again. :)

[Lazamataz]

Ugly.

Spiteful.

Hateful.

I aspire to be more like you.

[Lazamataz]

Ugly.

Spiteful.

Hateful.

I ask that you teach me how to be more so.

[Lorianne]

I beg to differ. I did not make up lies about people's personal lives.

[ladyinred]

That is the purpose with animals, not humans, otherwise there would be cycles of fertility like in animals. Women don't go into "heat" like female animals.

Oh yeah? Tell it to my hormones! :-)

[Utilizer]

Ugly. Spiteful. Hateful. I ask that you teach me how to be more so.

LOL! It is rather amusing! It rather reminds Me of an old Garfield comic strip. In the first panel you see an elderly grandmother-type sitting on a park bench with a little bird in a cage on the bench to her left. In the next panel her head has snapped to her left and her wide-eyed startlement is apparent because Garfield is now perched on the bench on the other side of the cage and is fixedly staring at the little bird. In the next panel she has whipped the cage up into the air and on the other side of her -away from Garfield- at the same time shouting "BACK! BACK, YOU SAVAGE!!!" and it is Garfield's turn to look wide-eyed and startled. In the last panel we see a close-up of Garfield, staring back at us with a smile on his face and thinking "Savage. I like that."

[fqued]

you wrote: I beg to differ. I did not make up lies about people's personal lives.

Uh, were you the author of the now-deleted post #903?

[SauronOfMordor]

Ugly. Spiteful. Hateful. I aspire to be more like you.

Become the father of a teenager. It will give you all the practice you need. Especially when you tell her she's not allowed to visit her friends until she's caught up on ALL her schoolwork. THEN you will hear masterfully-crafted descriptions of your essential evil

[Lorianne]

Absolutely. In reply to 901 in which Utilizer makes up a fantasy life for me. I did the same for him and many people got my point judging from personal messages to me.

Sauron made up even more lies and wild conjecture, even quoting someone else's fantasy of being married to me!

Bottom line is, I had a question which people didn't like (which was not personally directed to any one poster) and these two posters (and others) took it to the personal level by inventing lies about me specifically, my personal relationship.

And, they went straight for the personal attack never attempting to answer my question in a calm rational way.

Apparently my simple question was so threatening to some here that they only way they can deal with it is to lash out with irrational personal attacks; making up viscious suppositions about my personal/sexual life and marriage, which logically they cannot know.

Very telling indeed.

[fqued]

You know, what is most fascinating to me is that about a dozen people tried very hard in different ways to answer your question honestly and objectively. Frankly most of them did a damn fine job. And yet you seem not to be able to understand the point that ALL of them were trying to make, each in his or her own way. And then you lash out at two people who you claim were making up things about your personal life.

Two points:

1) Your question was answered quite well many times.

2) I did not read their statements to you in the same way that you interpreted them. Frankly, I thought the one post that seems to have irritated you most was really quite complimentary of your husband. I humbly suggest that you re-read it (post 801, I think) in that light.

[Lorianne]

Post 901 and other by Utilizer and Sauron are complete fabrications! What the hell does any of these fabrications that have to do with the topic at hand?

Some posters did answer thoughtfully and politely but I did not think they were answering the question I asked. Instead I was lectured by dozens of people about the male sex drive, which is fine but not what my specifically what question was about. Others answered that if a spouse loves the other spouse they will sometimes have sex even when they aren't really in the mood. I agree that this is true, but this wasn't what my question was about either.

I'm trying to think of an analogy to what my question was about. If I desperately need $5,000 and friend gives it to me out of friendship, that's great. But what if I told the friend that he/she is obligated to give me the $5,000 because that's what friendship is about. If he/she doesn't give it to me she's not really a good friend and doesn't really love me. Now let's say he/she gives the money to me me but I know deep down she doesn't really want to give it to me. I'm might take it because I really need it, but I'll feel like I've unfairly coerced my friend and sort of "called in my chips" on our relationship. I can't really feel joyful about getting the $5,000 or enjoy spending it under the circumstances and I've likely poisoned our friendship in the process.

Totally different if the fried comes to me and says "Here, I know you need this money and even though I can't really afford to right now, I'm giving it too you anyway".

This analogy isn't great but I'm trying to show that (imo)a sense of sexual obligation is poisoning to a relationship rather than one where two people are mutually giving of their own accord, not by some arbitrary rule that says they "owe" the other spouse something.

[Nita Nupress]

See ya all later, got to get hubby in a good mood before I have to tell him I broke the garbage disposal again. :)

LOL! Gee, I wonder how you could do that? ;-)

It's times like these that make you realize how lucky we are by having the ability to put them in such a good mood. Every time I try to make gravy from scratch, I whisper something x-rated in his ear and he doesn't even notice he's swallowing lumps. :-)

[Nita Nupress]

And maybe that's the difference. Does anyone enjoy doing the dishes, the wash or ironing? (Although having a TV in the kitchen makes the kitchen stuff bearable.)

Actually, I don't mind ironing and washing clothes. It's the dishes I HATE doing. But my husband helps, so I have no complaints.

On the other hand, do my chores not count as work because I enjoy them?

See, that was your first mistake -- letting your wife know that you enjoy them. Is it too late to reverse that? At least it would get you back on an even playing field. :-)

[Utilizer]

Every time I try to make gravy from scratch, I whisper something x-rated in his ear and he doesn't even notice he's swallowing lumps. :-)

FOFLOL!!!! Ohmygod, Nita.... I... I have to tell you (wiping tears of hilarity from eyes), if it was Me you were whispering those 'sweet nothings' to, I would not notice if I was swallowing lumps of charcoal!!!

You sweet thing, you!

[SauronOfMordor]

I've discovered in long-ago threads that trying to deal with Lorianne is an ultimately futile act.

[SauronOfMordor]

It's times like these that make you realize how lucky we are by having the ability to put them in such a good mood. Every time I try to make gravy from scratch, I whisper something x-rated in his ear and he doesn't even notice he's swallowing lumps. :-)

Women have the ability to totally control the mood of most men, simply by how they treat them. It's magic if you get the technique down right

[Nita Nupress]

Smiles to both of you. :-)

Good night!