'Honey, You Repel Me': Advice For Couples in a Sexless Marriage

Wall Street Journal ^ | Thursday, May 15, 2003 | SUE SHELLENBARGER

[gatechie]

fifty percent of married women tell the researchers that they have never had one - I guess you could think they are underreporting it - but I think they would be under more pressure to fake it than to lie about actually having one.

[The Raven]

>>>This analogy isn't great but I'm trying to show that (imo)a sense of sexual obligation is poisoning to a relationship

That's a justification. Perhaps look at it (instead of an obligation - which implies control) as a necessary part of the day - like going to work or eating. If things aren't going well - maybe a different angle "What can I do better?" "Guess I'll have to try harder"

[SauronOfMordor]

That's a justification. Perhaps look at it (instead of an obligation - which implies control) as a necessary part of the day - like going to work or eating. If things aren't going well - maybe a different angle "What can I do better?" "Guess I'll have to try harder"

And it would apply to BOTH parties. One theme through this thread has been "if she's not in the mood, he's going to have to do whatever's needed to get her in the mood". My position is that the one who's not in the mood ALSO needs to be pro-active to handle whatever it is that prevents being in the mood.

Too tired? Cut back on time-consuming activities and get more sleep

The job has you too stressed out? Find another job

Feeling too guilty because of wild afternoon sex with the paperboy? Cut it out

Feeling fat and unsexy? Take up jogging rather than taking it out on your spouse

Whatever it takes

[Lorianne]

Thank you. That was very appropos to what I'm trying to express.

Would one want someone to pretend to love you over the long haul? If you knew someone was only pretending to love you, wouldn't you long for the real thing?

Likewise, sex being for the mutual pleasure of both, would you want someone who was merely going through the motions but not really sexually aroused by or sexually attracted to you over the long haul? Wouldn't you want someone who want you in that way.

It seem to me that if the sex is not genuine, that would be a clue that something is wrong. Just accepting unresponsive sex, collecting on you marital obligations from the other spouse, would be sweeping the problems under the rug. (Likewise the one having sex out of obligation is also deferring the dealing with real missing elements in the relationship).

What I haven't figured out is what is the goal of allowing the sexual relationship to languish in this realm of obligation with one partner not having the desire necessary to sustain an intimate sharing loving sexual relationship?

[Lorianne]

Give your own opinions instead of making up opinions for me.

[Quilla]

This has been an incredibly interesting thread. I'm curious of your take on this hypothetical:

A couple has been married for 40 years. At age 60, the husband still has a sex drive, but the wife's has waned to nothing. In your opinion, should she have sex with him on occasion merely for his gratification?

[Scothia]

A couple has been married for 40 years. At age 60, the husband still has a sex drive, but the wife's has waned to nothing. In your opinion, should she have sex with him on occasion merely for his gratification?

I find it interesting that, in a thread of over a thousand posts, virtually nothing has been said about men not being able to satisfy their wives. They get older or ill, sometimes the hardware doesn't work the way it used to. Viagara is not always an option. What about impotence in men, and women who want to be satisfied by their husbands? Women are more likely to subjugate their sexual desires through family, housework, artistic or other pursuits, religion, etc. But the desire and lack of fulfillment still exists. The husband may not want or be able to talk about it, either, which must really complicate the problem, as he may not seek medical or other help; and the wife is left to muddle through this on her own.

[Lorianne]

If she wants to that's her decision. Do I think she's obligated? No.

Also, keep in mind that for a woman, particularly an older woman, sex without arousal can be painful and may be unhealthy (vaginal tears). That said, there may be other ways they can be intimate with each other besides intercourse. For a woman who cannot get sexually aroused having sex is just as difficult (but in a different way) as for a man who cannot get an erection.

I would also remind that the marriage vows say "for better of for worse". Loss of sexual drive or ability to become aroused would definitely go in the "worse" column.

Let's turn it around. If a man cannot become sexually aroused with his wife who still has a sex drive, should he he have sex with her on occasion merely for her gratification?

[honeygrl]

I think she should make an effort to either help satisfy him in ways other than actual sex or talk to her doctor about how to perk her sex drive. If she makes the effort to work it out and it still doesn't help then a loving hubby should understand and take care of himself when he gets the urge (not with another woman of course, but on his own if you get my drift.) Thats a reason I'm not opposed to porn. It is great for some of us women who don't have as much sex drive as our hubby does when he can take care of things on his own when we don't feel like it.

[honeygrl]

Part of it is that for men sex isn't as much about love and emotions as it is for women. Sex to men is like chocolate to women. Chocolate satisfies you physically not emotionally and sex does the same for men. It's a lot more fun for them of course if you are as into it as they are but in the long run they still want the physical gratification whether you are as into it or not. It's not that they are being pigs about it, it's just that it makes them feel manly and satisfied and they need that. Women want sex more to feel loved and closer to their partner and take offense when men don't treat it with the same respect they do. Our brains just work differently.

[honeygrl]

"fifty percent of married women tell the researchers that they have never had one "

I wouldn't be surprised if that stat is true just because it is much more difficult for us to have one than for men too. The ages of the women they researched would effect it as well because it gets easier to have an orgasm as you get closer to your peak. I wouldn't be surprised if more than 80% of teen girls that are sexually active had never had one because their bodies aren't as developed as they need to be yet and they and their partners aren't as experienced. I know for me (and this may be too much info) it takes a lot of work to get there and any little distraction can make it not happen at all. One of the good things about those magazines (although I dislike the magazines descriptive covers) like Cosmo is they they give articles that tell women how to help themselves so they don't have to rely on their partner guessing how to get them there.

[Lorianne]

Good points.

[hopespringseternal]

What about impotence in men, and women who want to be satisfied by their husbands?

Where there is a will there is a way. In these situations the unsatisfied woman has an advantage: His problem is undeniable. A sexually dysfunctional woman, on the other hand, can go into deep denial and even engage in deception to keep her husband from knowing that there is a problem. He can notice the decrease in frequency, but she can act like it is just fine when it isn't.

[The Raven]

There's a book out there --not sure if I'm spelling it right - Kuma Sutra - which parrots what you just said. They have nine different scenerios - man or woman is either tired, medium, or hot - or any combination (9 total)

[The Raven]

There's a book out there --not sure if I'm spelling it right - Kuma Sutra - which parrots what you just said. They have nine different scenerios - man or woman is either tired, medium, or hot - or any combination (9 total)

[watchin]

Particularly for the person requesting the sex, what does he/she get out of wanting sex on an ongoing basis on an obligation basis (ie sex is "owed" because one is married)?

As long as we're splitting hairs, the answer to your stated question is: NOTHING. No one "gets" anything from merely "wanting" sex, whatever the "basis".

I think you meant to ask that question, leaving the word "wanting" out. And that, too, I've answered. If, on an ongoing basis, he/she doesn't get what his (assume gender-neutral please) heart desires he will eventually give up, because the answer again, is NOTHING, or at least nothing worth the begging.

He pushes the issue, not only due to his sex drive, but also because he can't bear to admit to himself that he's married to a woman who is not attracted to him. He hopes against hope that someday, if he gets the combination just right, she'll want him like he wants her.

No one can avoid the obvious forever, though.

[SauronOfMordor]

I find it interesting that, in a thread of over a thousand posts, virtually nothing has been said about men not being able to satisfy their wives. They get older or ill, sometimes the hardware doesn't work the way it used to.

Given a loving relationship, there's little that cannot be worked out to substitute for malfunctioning equiptment.

There are multiple ways that a husband who is willing to take the time can bring his wife to orgasm, just as there are multiple ways that a wife can satisfy her husband if vaginal sex is unworkable. Since it generally takes longer for the woman than the man, husbands who make the effort to ensure she gets her orgasm generally become proficient in this as a supplement to regular intercourse.

[Scothia]

Where there is a will there is a way. In these situations the unsatisfied woman has an advantage: His problem is undeniable.

Undeniable, but men deny it anyway. Some men just will not talk about sexual dysfunction, since so much of their identity as men depends on being a potent lover. In a case I knew personally (yes, men, we women talk about these things), the wife has great compassion for her husband because of the long hours he works and his general dissatisfaction with his life, but she's still very frustrated over his impotence and especially his not being willing to seek treatment. He won't talk about their problem and gets very uptight if she tries to; to him the fact that intercourse is over the moment it begins--if it ever begins in the first place--is not something he wants to face. He won't see a doctor about it; she's not interested in mechanical or other manipulation, and wouldn't think of going outside the marriage. If she brings it up at all (and I know this woman well--she would never put him down or be anything but gentle about it) he gets very embarrassed and acts as though she's attacked him.

I have no real counsel for her aside from trying to be her friend. She loves him dearly and will never divorce him over this or anything, but it's a real problem. I've been married about the same amount of time this couple has, and wouldn't be happy in a sexless relationship, either. What's a woman to do about such a super-sensitive husband?

[watchin]

The problem is not obligations. I am marriaged with four children. I have a boatload of obligations, responsiblilities, duties, etc. That does not destroy a family, relationships, marriage, etc. It would be harmful, however, if I decided that I didn't want to fulfill those obligations. In fact, society, history, religion, and virtually everyone on this thread would condemn me if I decided not to fulfill those obligations.

And I have a very strong sense of obligation to my family, and that is a very GOOD thing.

Interesting post, and good point. Really the gist of my response, but far better written. Lorianne has a point, that pushing one another's obligation hurts the relationship.

But, as you say, it's not the obligation itself that's poisoness, it's the rejection of obligation - which brings on the state Lorianne describes.

[SauronOfMordor]

Let's turn it around. If a man cannot become sexually aroused with his wife who still has a sex drive, should he he have sex with her on occasion merely for her gratification?

Yes. It will help with intimacy and bonding, and would be good for the relationship