Data Recorders In Your Car - the information found on two black boxes used in court case in Florida

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[chance33_98]

Data Recorders In Your Car

Shawn Boyd reporting Last Updated: May 14, 2003

Data recorders that work like those on commercial airliners are now standard equipment on most cars, they have been for several years. Two court cases are putting the information found on two black boxes to work for prosecutors in Florida and right here.

Edwin Mantos' trial began Wednesday in Broward County Florida. He's accused of running his Trans-Am into two teenage girls last August killing them. Data downloaded from his car's black box showed he was going 114 mph just before he hit them.

Diana Santi was killed in a car accident and the other driver, Manuel Martinez, survived and now faces a number of charges including murder. Metro did its usual crash investigation, but this time they took it further.

Plugging into what's often called a black box, the event data recorder is underneath the front passenger seat console or dash, as many as 40 million cars on the road have one. It's the brain that monitors and controls the car's airbag. But it also holds a wealth of information that can be used in accident reconstructions, engine speed, gas pedal pressure, brakes, and vehicle speed.

The SUV that Manuel Martinez was driving had a black box that revealed electronic secrets to investigating officer Mario Alfonsi. The SUV accelerated to 78 mph one second before impact according to the black box. Chief deputy DA Gary Booker is prosecuting Martinez.

The SUV's black box is giving him the backing evidence he feels will help him put Martinez away. Booker is looking to place blame and this will be the first time this kind of evidence is used in trial in Clark County.

[Revelation 911]

welcome to amerika - This is a little too instrusive for me - any good forensics geek could reconstruct this.

On-star bugs me too - but then again , I hear voices

[bigfootbob]

The auto rags have been screaming about this for years. They've reported story after story about the abuses gleaned from this device by rental/lease companies and the insurance industry. Can mandatory human implants be far behind?

[nightdriver]

"But it also holds a wealth of information that can be used in accident reconstructions, engine speed, gas pedal pressure, brakes, and vehicle speed."

I refuse to drive a car with a "tattle-tale" like that.

Just wait until all cars are REQUIRED to not only have these, but to have a receiver-transmitter on the back so that a cop can druve up behind you and point his gun at it and find out where you've been and how many laws you have broken. Everything from seat belts to complete stops at stop signs. If your transmitter doesn't work, it'll be an immediate arrest for felony.

You heard it from me first.

[Adder]

Sad/mad thing is that it is illegal to tamper with those things because its illegal to shut off the airbag in most states.

Its all widgets, right? Chips and magnetic pulses. So would a magnetic field interfere with the storing of the data? Little duct tape, a horseshoe magnet...data spaghetti?

Anyone know? Would it work?

[WKB]

This is where the original "hold my beer and watch this came from.
In redneck 4 whell drive fatal accidents it was their last words 99% of the time.

[Jack of all Trades]

The data is probably stored in nonvolatile RAM (chips). Wire cutters and a four pound sledge would work pretty well.

[Mr. Jeeves]

The freedom to drive anywhere we want without detection or having to obtain an internal passport from the next state is one we have been taking for granted. I think that's why the Left is so bent out of shape about SUV's - banning them would be the first step toward taking away the right to travel and molding us into good little Eurosocialists who eschew automobile ownership and take mass transit everywhere.

With all the hysteria about guns, there is no way that cars aren't next on the list.

[Constitution Day]

OBD III

[dark_lord]

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, if a warrant is issued based on evidence of a crime (e.g. high speed accident, people killed) and the data is extracted after the fact...what is the big deal? The key would be sufficient evidence of a crime, and a warrant being issued for the search. Vaccuuming electronic data as part of a search is legitimate.

On the other hand, making it a standard practice to extract the data would, I think, be in violation of the 4th amendment. After all, if it is your car, then it is your data and they don't have a right to copy it. I think without a warrant the data could be thrown out in court because it illegally obtained -- at the minimum, they are violating your intellectual property because you own the data (generated by you, using your own property, ergo you own it.)

[E Rocc]

The freedom to drive anywhere we want without detection or having to obtain an internal passport from the next state is one we have been taking for granted. I think that's why the Left is so bent out of shape about SUV's - banning them would be the first step toward taking away the right to travel and molding us into good little Eurosocialists who eschew automobile ownership and take mass transit everywhere.

It's certainly a hell of a lot easier to control a population that can't move about quickly and freely. That, not "pollution" is really the point, I have to suspect.

-Eric

[ElkGroveDan]

I think some electronics geek could create a huge market for an interface device that simply shows and/or wipes the data in the box.

As a guy who has actually ahd black helicopters circle over his house :-) I would buy one.

I'm sure you could devise something that re-routes the line through one of those handy quick-release plugs that are likely connected. Plug the interface into your laptop and PRESTO any data you want, or simply press an ERASE button any time you want.

[Jack of all Trades]

The two cases cited are not exactly poster children for a digital privacy campaign. The airbag issue is one that I roll around in my mind quite often. I don't very much like having an explosive device located in my steering wheel that is capable of breaking my arms or neck.

[dark_lord]

I have wondered whether there is an electronic signal that could be radio transmitted that could trigger the airbag. Now there's a terrorist weapon. Imagine broadcasting a widecast over a metro area during rushhour and popping 9 out of 10 airbags simultaneously.

[Lunatic Fringe]

Since this information is used to convict criminals, I have no problem with it... It's in the realm of measuring skid marks and taking photos of a crime scene. If you commit a crime in a car, the information stored on the computers are free game... and should be.

[Jack of all Trades]

..electronics geek.. ..huge market..

You rang? I think it would be simpler and cleaner to install something inline that would intercept the data and modify it as needed to keep it within reasonable limits. I also think that anyone who tried to sell such a thing would get jumped on by the Feds in a crack induced heartbeat. Aftermarket horsepower mods are sold with the understanding (wink wink) that the are for offroad (racetrack) use only. I can't think of a plausible excuse for installing a data defeat device.

[coloradan]

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, if a warrant is issued based on evidence of a crime (e.g. high speed accident, people killed) and the data is extracted after the fact...what is the big deal? The key would be sufficient evidence of a crime, and a warrant being issued for the search. Vaccuuming electronic data as part of a search is legitimate.

So, would you support there being black boxes in people's houses that would record conversations and other sounds, and movements - that would only be searched in the event of probable cause of a criminal act taking place at that house? Don't worry, if you haven't committed a crime, there's nothing to worry about?

[ModelBreaker]

I'm sure you could devise something that re-routes the line through one of those handy quick-release plugs that are likely connected. Plug the interface into your laptop and PRESTO any data you want, or simply press an ERASE button any time you want.

It would probably be hard to get to this button after a crash at 114 mph, like the guy in the article. The only secure way to do this would be to have the erase triggered by the release of the airbag.

But then there's a real problem. Suppose the guy that hit you was traveling 114 mph and you were going the speed limit. Wouldn't you like to be able to prove you were going the speed limit when his lawyer claims you were speeding? Or that you were sitting still at the light when another driver ran into you from behind, instead of cutting in front of him, as the other driver claims.

This device cuts both ways. It's a huge benefit in protecting me against fraud by the guy who hits me.

[BushCountry]

These devices are not that smart, they only record like 48 different events (then recycle). They are only good for crash purposes (e.g. seatbelt?, hit brakes, speed, gas peddle position, etc...) as far a tracking a person they are useless. It is much easier to invade your privacy following your cellphone use, on-star system, etc...

One other point police do not, I repeat do not need a warrent to attack a tracking device to your car since you use public roadways (this is more scary).

[Jack of all Trades]

OBD III

Very interesting, the initial stages are already happening.