Mom 'calm' in call to 911 - diaries, Bible sought to shed light on her thoughts, boys' deaths

The Dallas Morning News ^ | May 12, 2003 | By LEE HANCOCK / The Dallas Morning News

[MineralMan]

"Without the help of these drugs, my daughter would not be able to function as a normal human being. I love her immensely, and these are her lifeline, so to speak."

That's a story that could be told by many, many people. Some, however, choose to accentuate the tiny minority who are either not helped, or worsened, by these medications.

Were it not for these psychiatric medications, we'd have a lot more horror stories to post here on FR.

[Gunrunner2]

So, when are the usual suspects going to start blaming the father.

It's always the man's fault.

[MineralMan]

"You're a brave man going against the tide here. Good for you!"

Going against the tide is my hobby, I guess, especially when it involves attitudes about mental illness. Sad that those who are invoking the name of Christ are not more Christ-like in their ability to understand and forgive.

Yes, this was a horrible thing. The woman was obviously mentally ill. I suspect she was untreated, though, and that's a darned shame.

[Xenalyte]

However, I doubt that Jesus would agree with your judgment on this. But, you have every right to express your feelings, no matter how un-Christ-like they might be.

Very big of you, MM, to point out that Jesus was better than us. Now leave us to our dreams of vengeance, for we are but human and do know how to hate the subhumans who perpetrate such atrocities on their own flesh and blood.

[lonestar]

As with Andrea Yates, this woman was on medication for her depression, as well.

Where'd you get this idea? The article said otherwise.

[al_c]

1) How could she kill both the 6- and the 8-year-old in this manner without having one or the other run away? Surely she could not have killed both of them simultaneously.

Nope. One at a time. Outside.

2) How could her husband sleep through this? Wouldn't there be screaming?

There have been times when I have slept through one of our little ones crying and my wife getting up to take care of her. Also ... ever a kid from the middle of a deep sleep? They seem confused and are easy to lead around. They may have even fallen back to sleep if she was carrying them. Screaming? After one hit in the head from a big rock, I doubt there was any noise at all.

Truly a sad situation. I don't see how anyone can do this to their own kids.

[lonestar]

I agree with you.

[MineralMan]

"Very big of you, MM, to point out that Jesus was better than us. Now leave us to our dreams of vengeance, for we are but human and do know how to hate the subhumans who perpetrate such atrocities on their own flesh and blood."

No problem. You're welcome to your "dreams of vengeance," as far as I'm concerned. Jesus, though, taught something else, if I remember correctly.

But you just go ahead and do what you want. It's your life. In the meantime, I'll point out what I think as well. Last I heard, FR allows me to do that.

[MineralMan]

"As with Andrea Yates, this woman was on medication for her depression, as well.

Where'd you get this idea? The article said otherwise."

/satire on

Surely you don't expect people to read the _entire_ article, do you? It's much easier to form erroneous opinions if you ignore the article and just read the headline and first paragraph.
/satire off

Actually the article was pretty clear that no drugs were being taken by this woman, at least according to her family. Perhaps they should have been. Perhaps the church involved, like some, disapproves of the use of psychiatric medications. I don't know, but I imagine we'll find out.

[frodolives]

I'm simply overwhelmed at the christian compassion that is expressed here. Sigh. So typical.

Face it, like Yates, here is an over religious, overcontrolling (the 8 year old can't play in his own neighborhood?), psychotic woman left in charge of helpless children. and Daddy SLEPT through this? Sure. Lock 'em both up. Medicate her and slap some sense into him.

[MEGoody]

"Sane women do not kill their children in this way."

True, they do it a bit earlier and visit the local Planned Parenthood to have it done for them.

[b4its2late]

Has Katie Couric come to her defense yet?

Probably on the Tonight Show.......

[MeekOneGOP]

As al_c notes in post #46, she woke one child and took him outside and killed him. Then woke the other child and did the same.

It seems like the husband was maybe not in the house at the time? Maybe out of town? I'm not exactly sure, but that is what I seem to recall from an earlier article.

[MineralMan]

"I'm simply overwhelmed at the christian compassion that is expressed here. Sigh. So typical.

Face it, like Yates, here is an over religious, overcontrolling (the 8 year old can't play in his own neighborhood?), psychotic woman left in charge of helpless children. and Daddy SLEPT through this? Sure. Lock 'em both up. Medicate her and slap some sense into him."

Well, you could be right, but I don't see all that much to support that point of view, either. It's early days yet, and there's much of the story still to emerge. I suppose we'll find out more in the next few days.

[MEGoody]

"Churches who frighten fragile personalities into believing death is right around the corner for them and their families are doing no one a service."

In general, churches that talk about the end times stuff also remind us that, if we are in Christ, we have no need to fear (e.g. the rapture).

Not sure where your argument is coming from. Perhaps you've experienced some church or churches who don't teach the entire story as it were.

[MineralMan]

"I'm simply overwhelmed at the christian compassion that is expressed here. Sigh. So typical.

Face it, like Yates, here is an over religious, overcontrolling (the 8 year old can't play in his own neighborhood?), psychotic woman left in charge of helpless children. and Daddy SLEPT through this? Sure. Lock 'em both up. Medicate her and slap some sense into him."

Well, you could be right, but I don't see all that much to support that point of view, either. It's early days yet, and there's much of the story still to emerge. I suppose we'll find out more in the next few days.

I did do a search on Google, and discovered that many Assembly of God ministers advise against the use of psychiatric drugs. It's possible that this church was on which discouraged such use. It's also possible that the use of such drugs might well have saved the lives of these children.

Again, time will tell.

[MineralMan]

"Sane women do not kill their children in this way."

True, they do it a bit earlier and visit the local Planned Parenthood to have it done for them."

Oh my. This is not an abortion issue at all; it is an issue of a woman killing her young, already-born children. Apparently she was mentally ill, for one would have to be to do such a thing. Let's try to keep the issues straight, shall we?

[FreepLady]

"For some people, perhaps even most, these medications are their lifeline."

I agree. I have been on an antidepressant for two years now and it has literally changed my life for the better. Depression runs in my family, and I was "lucky" enough to inherit it. If it wasnt for antidepressants, I would have NO life! I literally thank God every day for guiding the hands of the drug makers to make such a life giving drug for people like me who need them.

[MineralMan]

"I agree. I have been on an antidepressant for two years now and it has literally changed my life for the better. Depression runs in my family, and I was "lucky" enough to inherit it. If it wasnt for antidepressants, I would have NO life! I literally thank God every day for guiding the hands of the drug makers to make such a life giving drug for people like me who need them."

Your experience reflects that of millions of people who are helped by psychiatric medications. There are some fundamentalist churches, however, which counsel against the use of any such medications. Their belief is that prayer and religious counseling is all that is needed. I do not know if that is the case with the church this woman attended, but I suspect it is.

If so, then this is a double tragedy. If so, then medication might have prevented this disaster from happening. If so, then part of the blame for the deaths of these children lies with the teachings that say that psychiatric medication is not to be used.

I suspect we will find out more.

[sinkspur]

Churches who frighten fragile personalities into believing death is right around the corner for them and their families are doing no one a service.

Yep, especially "intensely religious" people like this woman.

Life's tough enough on its own without sanctimonious ministers and priests preaching hellfire and Armageddon in order to act out their own simmering anger.

This "end times" nonsense captures the easily-controlled, and can easily lead them to think they are actually doing God's work by pre-empting some kind of global conflagration.

In the service shown Sunday, Mr. Bell talked about the world's increasing terrorism and violence as signs of the imminence of the Antichrist, Armageddon and the return of Jesus Christ.

I wonder if these clerics actually believe they're going to scare people into heaven.