FBI might drain Md. pond (it's now a tub with holes)

Baltimore Sun ^ | 5/12/03 | Scott Shane

[TrebleRebel]

FBI might drain Md. pond as part of its anthrax probe Spores reportedly found during Dec., Jan. searches of waters near Frederick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Scott Shane Sun Staff Originally published May 12, 2003

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In addition, The Washington Post, citing anonymous sources, reported yesterday that divers retrieved a "clear box" with holes that could accommodate protective biological safety gloves, as well as vials wrapped in plastic.

Scientists working with dangerous microbes often use a "glove box," a sealed container made of glass or clear plastic with glove ports fixed in place to allow the researcher to manipulate equipment without being directly exposed to the germs. Such equipment ranges from laboratory-size units of the kind used at the Army's biodefense center at Fort Detrick in Frederick to small, inexpensive "glove bags" made of flexible plastic that can be disposed of after a single use.

One person who has heard a description of the box allegedly found in the pond said last night that it was not a commercially manufactured glove box or glove bag, but rather a plastic tub with two holes in it. The source, who has spoken to FBI officials, said some investigators believe it might have been part of jury-rigged equipment used to load the anthrax spores into the envelopes later sent to two U.S. senators and several media organizations. ------------------------

[Sacajaweau]

Thanks for that information though who the heck knows the truth of it.

I just try to "think" how I would have to do this and the pre-loaded syringe concept works best. So did they have many pre-loaded (throw-away) (1 oz) syringes?? or did they extract it through the seal of a 1 oz vial and insert it into the envelopes??

[freeperfromnj]

HF received medical training in South Africa, lists a post-graduate diploma in diving and underwater medicine from a South African training institute.

Of course the evidence is all circumstantial and a lot of it may be just coincidential, but you have to admit that it's a pretty long, interesting and intriguing list that can't be easily dismissed. I don't recall anyone coming to the defense of Scott Ritter -- the white male, ex-military weapons inspector. HF sure has a lot of fans here.

[The Great Satan]

I thought it was significant that yesterday's Washington Post article did not call the box a "glove box," but only strangely implied that it was.

I thought it was interesting that the WP story and the stories which picked it up focused on the trivial detail of the "new theory" about how the letters were loaded, rather than the apparent bombshell that the Feds found anthrax and a makeshift glove box four months ago in a pond based on a lead from Steve Hatfill's bioterrorism novel. And what I infer from that is that the story was crafted to plant a talking point in public consciousness, while somehow avoiding the question of why they haven't arrested this man or empanelled a grand jury to put him in the hot seat. This is a pattern we've seen again and again in this case. Remember "Greendale School"? Remember Hatfill's press conferences, and the photos of Hatfill's alleged girlfriend's alleged apartment allegedly turned over by FBI agents? Same modus operandi.

[yarddog]

I recall about 15 years ago the FBI caused a real stir regarding the investigation of the murder of a Federal Judge.

They suddenly swooped down on a junk dealer in Enterprise, Alabama and began to search every inch of his business including the pleasant job of digging up the septic tank.

I was watching this on TV with another grad student and we both laughed. It was so obvious listening to the owner that he was not the mad bomber that it was literally funny. Of course it turned out he had nothing to do with it and the only evidence was that the typewriter used to write some letter had once been in his junk.

Of course they have to check out all leads but this was ridiculous. The really do appear to be incompetent sometimes.

[harpseal]

You are misunderstanding nothing.

[cynicom]

I bet they are really looking for Rudolph, the guy they never found in North Carolina.

[cpdiii]

For arguments sake lets say Hatfield did it. I do not think he did. He is a doctor and would have access to the
Antibiotic that will prevent anthrax. If he worked with this agent in his profession he would have had the option of taking the vaccination that prevents anthrax. He would not need a glove box to load envelopes and thus leave a trail of incriminating evidence. He would merely need to load the envelopes in an isolated area, insert the envelopes into a zip lock bag, bathe in a creek or lake, dispose of his clothes, put on new ones, and drive back home. His envelopes would be ready to go whenever he decided to unzip the bag and drop it in a mailbox.

The scenario we are reading in the papers is bizzare.

[The Great Satan]

The scenario we are reading in the papers is bizzare.

That's because this is just a made-up, BS talking point which is being disseminated right now to give a booster shot to the "domestic" theory of the anthrax. A few weeks ago, as the war in Iraq was winding down, there was another flurry of anthrax-related news stories with the same basic "take home" message. Supposedly, US Army scientists had discovered, after 18 months of trials, that the anthrax sent with the mail threats following 9/11 could have been weaponized simply by a private individual, without the resources of the state.

Now, ask yourself what might be the purpose of pushing this line now, in the wake of the resolution of the Iraq situation. I suggest the answer to that question is the same as the answer to the following: Why did the administration go to such lengths to sell us the story that we were personally targeting Saddam during the Iraq campaign? Who will be arrested first, Hatfill or Saddam? Or will neither of them ever be arrested?

[The Great Satan]

They turned to the hot topic of anthrax. The powder in the letter mailed to Senator Daschle's office had been found to be potent, prompting officials to suggest its source was likely an expert capable of producing the bacteria in large amounts. Tenet said, "I think it's AQ" – meaning al Qaeda. "I think there's a state sponsor involved. It's too well thought out, the powder's too well refined. It might be Iraq, it might be Russia, it might be a renegade scientist," perhaps from Iraq or Russia.

Scooter Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, said he also thought the anthrax attacks were state sponsored. "We've got to be careful on what we say." It was important not to lay it on anyone now. "If we say it's al Qaeda, a state sponsor may feel safe and then hit us thinking they will have a bye because we'll blame it on al Qaeda."

"I'm not going to talk about a state sponsor," Tenet assured them.

"It's good that we don't," said Cheney, "because we're not ready to do anything about it."

         — Bush at War, Bob Woodward, p. 248 (account of NSC meeting, 10/17/01)

[ChefKeith]

Federal Bumbling Idiots strike again!

[The Great Satan]

Federal Bumbling Idiots strike again!

Hardly. It's the administration that is BS-ing us. The FBI is just a tool. And if you want to understand why the administration is BS-ing us about the anthrax letters, it would be helpful to figure out why they BS-ed us about the "decapitation strikes."

Or, to put it another way, why is it that this man is smiling...

...and this man isn't?

[freeperfromnj]

I believe the reason they searched the pond to begin with is because they had a tip or witness. So far whatever leads they may have has taken them to a warehouse in Florida near his parents home (possible Florida connection); they have searched his apartment and a restaurant where bloodhounds responded (I know this is disputable but nevertheless the reputable, highly trained dogs reacted strongly at both places); they apparently have found something in the pond or they wouldn't be going to the extreme of draining it; he spent a decade in Africa returning to the U.S. in '95 (we don't know who he crossed paths with there); he falsified his resume in a big way; he worked at Ft. Detrick (Ames strain connection); he worked with anthrax; he trained in underwater medicine; he wrote a novel with details similar to the real attacks; he gave a lecture on a bioweapons attack where he specifically describes a bio attack via the mail system; and of course there is the Greendale school which we should automatically dismiss because it's just another ridiculous, illogical coincidence. If you look at each of these pieces of information separately of course it doesn't prove anything but it is surely worthy of an investigation. He already threatened to sue. Whey would the feds continue down this road with such a wierd story? You couldn't make this stuff up!

[WL-law]

There's some problems with your theory. First it relies on an unsubstantiated report of Atta and Ani meeting in Prague. There is no evidence for that meeting, yet evidence must exist since Czech intel didn't know who Atta was at the time of the meeting. Second, the spores sent through the mail had to be processed with a centrifuge or similar device after being grown from bacteria. The bacteria do not cause infection, only the spores. Third, the additive (bentonite) is not rare, it's $7 for a 50 pound bag.

The meeting DID occur, it's been confirmed by the Czech govt, check the story as its developed over time. The NY Times played a role in downplaying the authenticity of the meeting, with some FALSE reporting. Go figure.

[The Great Satan]

Whey would the feds continue down this road with such a wierd story? You couldn't make this stuff up!

Of course you could. And that's exactly what Hatfill and the boys at Amerithrax did. They made it up. It's kind of like the "earprint" story? Remember that? We were supposed to believe that the US personally targeted Saddam Hussein because a CIA operative used special "earprint technology" to ID him entering a bunker, then spied him being med-evaced away on a gurney with an oxygen mask over his face after we plopped a barrage of forty cruise missiles on the building. Remember that story? Guess what? The government has people whose jobs are making this sh*t up, and other people whose jobs are feeding it to the willing dupes in the press. And guess who sits at the bottom of this food chain?