PBS airs "Hitler's Victory," an alternate history with significance to American patriots

[risk]

Hitler's Britain (2 ´ 50'), produced by AAC FACT™, Lark International for PBS and Lion Television, examines one of the most intriguing questions of our time: what would the Nazis have done if they had conquered Britain? Told in two equally compelling parts, Thinking the Unthinkable: The Nazi Occupation of Britain and Churchill's Last Stand: The Secret of the British Resistance, Hitler's Britain will examine the unsettling possibilities of an alternative world order, and the chilling consequences that Hitler's victory would have had on the UK and beyond. Using reconstruction and graphic manipulation, the programme shows how Hitler's plans would have transformed Britain from a gentle, free-spirited country into an unimaginably harsh and repressive regime.

[Princeliberty]

The only contingency plans I have
read about being made for the fall
of England was trying to get the
Royal Nay to come into our ports
and even the thought of sinking
ships to prevent them form falling
into German hands.
As for contingency plans for the Calvary.
Got to have the Calvary to send them.

[Princeliberty]

No the real German Ace would have been
their powerfull German paratrooper
corps and there huge number of guilders
that could have brought in significant
infantry foces.

In a air fight over the Channel and
beaches the German Air Force would
have (and in history almost did(
gained air supremecy, the Battle
of Britian was really lost by
the lack of German focus in
the air attacks and the huge
mistake of shifting to the London
attacks.


And grabbing beachheads force
the Royal Navy
into the Channel and then
its a Navy vs. Airforce
and Subs in a Channel.
And history has only give one
answer as to what happens
then, the Navy sinks.

[SoDak]

We would still have won

That...is the key. In the program, they talked about the US staying out of it through the occupation of Britain. I do not believe this would be the case. Obviously, it wouldn't be easy, and it would be costly, but I think we would have made our move the moment Britain was invaded. Whether we would have succeeded in stopping them from actually occupying for a time is another thing, but I guarantee American troops would have been on the ground there fighting before the occupation would have been completed.

[SoDak]

Aired last night in the US...even in SD.

[Poohbah]

Do you think the Royal Navy could have completely closed the Channel?

With just the Home Fleet?

Possibly not. If they succeeded, it might have been at a truly ghastly cost--and that might have given Germany time to build REAL amphibs and to try again.

[RogueIsland]

Considering The Bomb, we would probably have still won the war, but it would have been longer and much bloodier.

The ironic thing is that Hitler's persecution of the Jews may very well, in large measure, prevented him from getting the atomic bomb first. If he had waited a year or two before launching his offensives, if he'd not driven off or killed the best and brightest Jewish scientists in Germany... one shudders.

[Poohbah]

Pro-British American opinion of the time was exaggerated. The elite were mostly anglophiles, and BSC was busy molding opinion on our continent.

If Roosevelt's efforts weren't popular, he wouldn't have had a prayer of winning the 1940 election.

And Germany wouldn't have felt it necessary to contribute funds to Wilkie's campaign...

[eyespysomething]

Oh that's the one where our small town is a bastion of freedom, as all our well-armed citizens fight for our lives to keep out the invaders!

;-)

[Restorer]

Very true. His ideology is basically what defeated him.

Another example is that a great many Soviets initially welcomed the invading Germans, until they realized Nazis were even worse than Commies (at least for Slavs). A mere million men deducted from the Red Army and added to the Wehrmacht would probably have led to a German victory.

[Future Snake Eater]

You left out the second chapter where the military overthrew the dem government, instituted martial law, armed veterans to guard the streets, and then nuked mecca, medina, tehran, damascus, rounded up American Muslims...

Is it wrong that I smile warmly at such thoughts?

[Reaganwuzthebest]

We agree US forces were small in 1940, but as I said in post #82 the draft had resumed in September of that year; the fall of Britain would have been taken much more seriously, and while we may have not sent the calvary in immediately, they would have gotten there eventually.

The whole premise of this program is: what could have happened if Britain fell, might Hitler have won the war? In my opinion, the US would not have let him, even if we had to drop the atomic bomb on Germany which by then we were developing. I do not believe the US would have come to some kind of peace terms with him anymore than we did the communists. In order for capitalism to survive we need markets, Hitler and Japan were taking them... they had to go.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

This fairy tale of Hilter was just a lunatic and it all was a just one huge false in pan is foolishness designed to avoid answering hard questions about what was wrong(and is wrong) that Hilter rose and had support to lesser or greater degree throughout Europe and many who didn't support still didn't want to fight him.

Small countries like Holland, Belgium, and Poland did not the have the military means to fight Hitler, they were forced into his rule. Some of the population in Europe were nazis or sympathizers, but it is untrue Hitler was enthusiastically supported. In each of them there were large underground resistance movements during his occupation. Even in France as I recall the films there were thousands of American flags waving as the troops and tanks poured into Paris. Or am I to believe those people were forced and dragged into the streets to show support, similar to a May Day parade in Red Square?

[Princeliberty]

If Germany had winning, not only would they
gained information for Britian but
instead being bombed liked crazy and
their resources totally sapped,
they would have had great resources
to go after the bomb as well,
so we might not have gotten the bomb
first or they may gotten shortly after us.

Also, bombing Germany would not been so simple
with all Europe under their control
we may not been able to get a bomb at Germany
itself.
Germany was way ahead of us on Rockets
and jets, so Germany probably would gained
the capacity to get a bomb to US
long before the US gets one to Germany.

However, I would say most likely
a deal would have cut with United States
and Germany.
FDR did not like Jews, and he was a socialist
and early on in 30s he gave praise to
some Hitler's policies in Germany,
FDR only objected to Hitler conquering
Europe.
But I think he was capable of cutting
a deal with him.

I would dispute the ID that the US always
the power to control the outcome, I think
that was far form the case.

[Princeliberty]

I am saying that the majority the people
in conquered nations supported Hitler.
I was only pointing out Facism was not limited
to Germany and that in fact has significant
support throughout Europe.
In fact in the 30s the Facists almost
took power in France.
France was almost on Germany's side form the
start of the war!

[Reaganwuzthebest]

I would dispute the ID that the US always the power to control the outcome, I think that was far form the case.

What this program is based on, which is how could things have possibly turned out if Britain fell is interesting, but if they really wanted to make it good it would have been about the potential outcome had Russia fallen. The US would then have been forced to put a large bulk of its resources into Alaska to counter Hitler from that side. It may have even been forced to invade Russia from the east to keep Hitler from getting too close to the US. Then I would say until this country got its hands on the bomb it would have had its work cut out for it, and who knows if Hitler might have beaten the US at getting the bomb at that point, the resources at his disposal would have been infinite.

As long Hitler remained confined to Europe however and out of range of US targets, there was no doubt what the outcome would be, a US victory. Germany could not compete with the US economically and industrially. For every plane they could produce, the US could manufacture 10 or more. Same with bullets and tanks. And the US had twice the number of men. He didn't have a chance against the US with those odds, and his generals knew it.

[Reaganwuzthebest]

FDR did not like Jews, and he was a socialist and early on in 30s he gave praise to some Hitler's policies in Germany, FDR only objected to Hitler conquering Europe.

FDR was a flaming liberal, who invented modern liberalism that's had such a negative effect on the overall health of the country. But Roosevelt was not a socialist or a communist, he was an arrogant aristrocrat who felt himself above the masses.

Few today would dispute the necessity of getting the US into WW2, Hitler had to go and so did the Japanese leaders, but the way Roosevelt went about getting us into it bordered on treasonous. He knew in my opinion Pearl Harbor was coming, which means thousands of people were sacrificed to meet his war aims. That makes him a criminal, not a hero in my book.

[Princeliberty]

But a Germany controlling Eurasia would
have much much greater manufacturing capacity,
endless raw materials and the factors of
France, Great Britian and Russia
and many more men.

That Germany could have outproduced US,
US might have had better economic system
but Germany would have had so many
more resources at that point.

[JudgemAll]

Why don't they do one about Hitler gowing to Moscow?

Seems to me the West is portrayed as losers and the East as our last chance...

[Reaganwuzthebest]

But a Germany controlling Eurasia would have much much greater manufacturing capacity...

That's correct, which is why we were lucky they did not seize Russia. Stalin was evil, but not the threat to the US that Hitler was at the time.

The US by itself would have had a long road to defeating Hitler, but with Russia it could have been done without Britain almost as quickly as it was. That's why I think a show dealing with the possiblities of Russia falling instead of Britain would be much more interesting.

[southland]

RE post 28: We designed the B-36 bomber early in the war to bomb Germany in the event England fell. It would have been a ugly mess with Germany in control of England. The B-36 was BUILT after WW2 to deal with Russia.