Cop takes 'midnight photos' of teacher's classroom

Times Argus ^ | David Delcore

[Freedom2specul8]

"not to take what anyone...their parents...says at face value."

A few years ago, A school counselor announced to my daughter's 3rd grade classroom that they do not have to do what their parents say. That they have a choice. Oh boy did that cause an uproar. She had to go back the next day and explain to the students that they do have to obey yada yada yada. GRRRR

[longtermmemmory]

not the same. the file argument is a straw man, focus. There are three issues at least.

Tresspassing, negated by permission of janitor
Public Plain View, Items were on display in public in a classroom for viewing.
Plain View, if there is a window to plainly see the items.
Public debate: this was in fact school board related
Standing: whether as a citizen or an officer

If the officer was not in the performance of duties then they have no right to the pictures if the board was REALLY not petrified of being exposed they would have charge with tresspassing, They can't so they will not. (btw, you have to be given reasonable notice to egress. ie go away)

[longtermmemmory]

don't be so quick to condem voters of school boards. Stealth candidates are a fact of life in these usually nonpartisan elections.

[Freedom2specul8]

The majority of people in the county we lived in were liberals..and of course, who is the target voting population?

The elderly, would sometimes vote..single folks didn't get out and vote. The majority of folks in the PTA were liberals. The conservatives were a minority and couldn't figure out how to reach people who had no ties to the district.. We decided to move to a conservative county and are far better off. It's a great relief!

[longtermmemmory]

no they don't and I would have fun running rings around anyone who would stay that in a courtroom.

anyways this is all in fun.

[RonF]

It's scary how some folks on FR will condone means like this because they applaud the end. Yeesh...

10-4 on that. There are plenty of rational people here on FR. And there are plenty who are "right-wing nuts". The ends justifies the means, eh?

[r9etb]

1) Mott was not a private citizen. He was a uniformed, on-duty police officer. (See above.)

He was out of his jurisdiction. As such he had no official standing as a police officer. He was also "on break," which is an admission by Mott that he was not engaged in official business. The only thing we agree upon is that he was in uniform -- and his actions while in uniform seem to indicate he used his uniform to abuse authority.

Lest you think I condone Mott's actions, please be assured that I do not. That being said, there is nothing ILLEGAL about what he did, in my opinion.

A quick survey of Vermont school policies indicates that school districts have the authority under 13 VSA 3705 to define trespassing.

But it's easier than that. Mott claims he entered the building without the janitor's consent -- which is trespassing according to 13 VSA 3705. And as my cite from the Barre City school district policies shows, Mott's reason for being in the building (taking pictures for personal reasons) was not among those activities for which the district allows after-hours access -- which again argues for trespass under 13 VSA 3705.

Given the published district policy, it was clearly not within the janitor's authority to allow Mott inside, nor to allow him to take pictures. Indeed, the whole janitor angle seems like an effort by both sides to avoid firing the guy who unlocked the door to the classroom.

[MineralMan]

"The majority of people in the county we lived in were liberals..and of course, who is the target voting population?

"

Then you have a problem, for sure. Since we do _elect_ school boards, the majority wins. That _is_ our system. If you want a change, you must convince the majority.

Or you can move, as you did.

[r9etb]

Then again it is a public school and people have an absolute right to know what is going on. Parents should have the right to sit in the classroom if they so desire. Teachers are employed by the people, not dictators.

Very true. And also irrelevant to Mott's actions.

[f.Christian]

10-4 on that. There are plenty of irrational people here on FR. And there are plenty who are "left-wing nuts". The ends justifies the means, eh?

[MineralMan]

"There are plenty of irrational people here on FR. And there are plenty who are "left-wing nuts". The ends justifies the means, eh?
"

And then there are people on FR who are just plain nuts.

[RonF]

Unless the Officer is going to press formal charges with the evidence, I dont see a problem with this officer entering a public building.

He was outside his juristiction, misrepresenting his authority by wearing a police uniform and a gun, pounding on a door and demanding entry.

But this being public property the officer was within his duty to enter the property.

What are his duties outside his juristiction?

What are the duties of a law enforcement official to get involved in a situation where no law has been broken?

[f.Christian]

mineralnuts !

[RonF]

"An officer of the law can come in go as they deam fit in any school."

He was not an officer of the law at that school, it was out of his juristiction.

[ValerieUSA]

He did not go in and take pictures in private businesses, unless a crime had been committed there. Then photos are often taken by officers.
Had he taken pictures while in a public school building - so what?
As far as "jurisdiction" goes... he was a county deputy, if he checked the locks in a school within a city's limits where the city police force has jurisdiction - so what?

[r9etb]

Tresspassing, negated by permission of janitor

The janitor acted outside his authority. Approved after-hours access is defined in school policies.

Public Plain View, Items were on display in public in a classroom for viewing.

The door to the classroom was locked.

Plain View, if there is a window to plainly see the items.

At 0130, the room would have been dark. And the officer did not look through the window in any case.

Public debate: this was in fact school board related

So are lots of things. But it doesn't justify trespass and abuse of authority.

Standing: whether as a citizen or an officer

No person -- citizen or officer -- has the right to trespass.

[r9etb]

no they don't and I would have fun running rings around anyone who would stay that in a courtroom.

The burden of proof would be on you to prove that Mott didn't violate 13 VSA 3705.

[RonF]

After hearing what was on the wall of Treece's classroom I believe that he is teaching the students to be adversaries of our government and not to be good citizens. Pictures speak louder than words.

Yes, but you don't know how many pictures of what type were up on that wall. There could have been 20 pictures supporting the USA's current foreign policy, and 3 opposing it. If the pictures are of those 3 only, then a false picture is being painted.

[Travis McGee]

The teacher (sic) is using tactics right out of "Rules for Radacals," forcing the governtment to super-scrupulously uphold every law and regulation which favors the radicals, in order to advance their cause of destroying the government and the rule of law.

[MineralMan]

"After hearing what was on the wall of Treece's classroom I believe that he is teaching the students to be adversaries of our government and not to be good citizens. Pictures speak louder than words.

Yes, but you don't know how many pictures of what type were up on that wall. There could have been 20 pictures supporting the USA's current foreign policy, and 3 opposing it. If the pictures are of those 3 only, then a false picture is being painted."

Yup. We have no idea about this, actually. We read about a couple of these student projects only. Presumably others were posted as well. What do you want to bet that Mott took pictures of only the ones that personally offended him?

As usual, we have part of a story, not the whole story. Odds are we won't know the whole story, since it's such a local thing.

Sounds like a teacher who teaches that defying authority is not necessarily a bad thing, but that one has to be able to support one's defiance. He's probably on the liberal side, but that teaching is the same as led us to our Declaration of Independence, which was quite a defiance of authority, if my history is right.

I'll bet there were a bunch of student projects that depicted the opposing view. I'd be amazed if there weren't.