[donmeaker]

I don't hate Catholics. I used to be one, till I thought about it, and decided that what facts I could put my hands on, and a bit of logic meant that G-d would not work through a human bureaucracy, if He had overweening power.

So the inability for divine power to correct a supposedly divine institution indicates (to me) that its claim to divine influence are false. The only other alternative is that G-d wants pedophiles to molest children, and I don't accept that either. what do you think?

So, no special relationship for the Catholic Church indicates that its teaching is error, to me. Your mileage may differ. Sorry I didn't explain it better before.

I don't want this thread to detract from the main one.

[Conservative til I die]

1) Why use loaded words like 'beaureacracy?' Sounds to me like any hierarchical, organized body is a beaureacracy.

2) IMO, the idea that the Church is meant to be 1 billion little sub-churches (one for every believer and his bible) is sillier than thinking it's supposed to be one, visible body with a certain hierarchical structure.

3) I think your conclusion that the Church can't be what it says it is because it has pedophiles in it is specious at best. You're just using another buzzword of the day, no matter how true it may be. There are all kinds of sin other than buggering boys. Always has been. Instead of asking for divine control of the Church, you seem to be expecting divinity out of the hieararchy. Unfortunately, there are going to be bad eggs, some rotten. This is a Church of humans.