Save The Apache, Lose The Gold Plating (AH-64D Performance During Gulf War II)

Soldiers For The Truth ^ | April 29, 2003 | David Hackworth

[JudgeAmint]

Save the Apache, Lose the Gold Plating

By David H. Hackworth

As our magnificent warriors return from Iraq, they will tell the folks who sweated them out at home what really went down during their bold march to Baghdad and will catch them up on all the inside skinny concerning the war's winners and losers.

             

At first glance, one of the big equipment losers is the U.S. Army's crown jewel, the Longbow Apache helicopter gunship (AH-64D model). Especially since a Longbow squadron got ventilated March 24 over the city of Karbala when 34 of these $24 million birds – developed to knock out Soviet tanks during the Cold War – were shredded by a sky full of mainly small-arms and rocket-propelled grenade fire. One Longbow was shot down – its two-man crew captured – but most of the rugged birds managed to limp home on a shot-up rotor blade and a prayer. Yet almost a month later, 27 of the choppers were still rated "not fit to fly."

            

After this disaster – which got little press because of the Pentagon's daily cover-up drills – the brass no longer considered the much-hyped Longbow the aircraft of choice to lead the aerial battle charge. Instead, caution prevailed, and the U.S. Air Force's thick-skinned A-10 Warthog became the undisputed Close Air Support (CAS) champ of the war.

            

Now a chorus of self-appointed experts who wouldn't know a helicopter gunship from a flying saucer is telling the Pentagon to "deep-six" the Apache and give the prime CAS mission to the A-10.

            

They argue that the Apache not only didn't cut it in Iraq but screwed up big-time in fights last year in Afghanistan and during the 1999 Kosovo War, when it couldn't even get into the game because of training accidents and the concern that Serb missiles would channel "Black Hawk Down." Even though a less fancy, earlier model proved itself in spades during Desert Storm and, contrary to so-called expert claims, remains the favorite of our grunts – past and present – in Afghanistan.

            

But a closer look at the March 24 Little Bighorn reveals that the overconfident – some say even rash – commanders of the 11th Aviation Regiment fell for a classic Iraqi helicopter ambush of the sort perfected by Vietnamese guerrillas in the 1960s and refined by Somalian rebels in the 1990s. Eyewitnesses and Apache pilots say we're talking leadership fault here rather than the failure of a formidable fighting machine. And if so, the 11th Aviation skippers and their flawed planning should wear the blame, not this great CAS aircraft.

            

As it proved in Iraq by not crashing and burning when it became Swiss cheese over Karbala, the Apache is unbeatably rugged. A blistering machine capable of pounding the enemy right on the deck – in their face or standing off at five miles. Not to mention how, unlike a fast-moving fighter jet, it can also stay on station – low and slow – long enough to zap the bad guys and deliver close-in, enormous firepower directly in front of our grunts' foxholes when and where they need it. 

            

But the ultra-expensive Longbow system – a sure winner on the open plains of Europe against Soviet armor that became obsolete the day the Berlin Wall tumbled down – makes the Longbow-equipped Apache too heavy to fly in 21st-century high-altitude trouble spots such as Afghanistan. And since its clever congressional cheerleaders have made sure that its parts are made in almost every state, killing this platinum-plated porker won't be quick and easy.

            

Too bad. The money saved could be used to improve the proven AH-64A model, increase Apache pilot training, update attack helicopter doctrine to include the lessons learned in both Afghanistan and Gulf War II – and for training senior commanders on how to use these vital war-fighting assets correctly.

            

As for the A-10: Great airplane that belongs to the wrong service – the U.S. Air Force – where the top brass treat it like Cinderella with wings. These trusty flying machines should be transferred to the Army and the Marine Corps for use alongside their AH-64A Apaches and AH-1 Super Cobras as part of an awesome, well-rounded CAS fleet that would support our ground troops with the best combination of the right stuff.  

[GBA]

I would love to see a next generation A-10. It seems to have both proven that an a/c like it is needed in every combat situation that it's been used in and that the extremely rugged design philosophy used in its construction can withstand a great deal of battlefield abuse.

Instead of using soft a/c like the F-16 as FACs and for close air support, why not take what's been learned from the A-10 and build an even better one. I'm not talking building something extremely complex like the F-22 or F-35, but rather an even tougher but still relatively simple A-10 II to carry that big gun and off the shelf missles and bombs. It ain't broke, so don't fix it or phase it out, improve it!

Instead, in its infinite wisdom, the military is phasing out the A-10 in favor of the F-16. I'm confused! This reminds me of when the air force decided that air to air missles would replace the need for guns on fighters.

[Mark Felton]

The development of the Longbow had everything to do with the Soviets and massive armor penetration through the Fulda Gap; NK massive invasion into the South and armor engagement in any under-weather, dusty or poor visibility weather.

Apache Longbow development began in earnest in 1985 as a gilt-edged response to serious deficiencies of the Hellfire missile system in low visibility conditions, and as a means to stay out of ZSU AAA ranges.

The Cobra's do not have such severe poor weather deficiencies because of their ability to fire TOW missiles which are a superior missile in low visibility. (Though TOW's are not as effective against armor in ideal weather). The AH-1W's would have more diffculty in a battlefield heavily populated with ZSU's but our new battle doctrine seeks to eliminate those ZSU's before any helicopter comes into that battle area.

The AH-1W Marine corps Cobra's can fire both TOW and Hellfire missiles. The Apache cannot.

The Longbow missile itself has had many serious development problems throughout its history, not the least of which is the ability to identify the correct targets.

The Marine Corps upgrades to the AH-1W were typically done under tight budget constraints and so were focused on maximizing performance while keeping things simple and easy to maintain.

The Apache has always been an example of "excessively exhuberant" design and development. Too much money spent on too many ideas with too little real world experience about how to use those gee-whiz technologies.

[Kenny Bunk]

These trusty flying machines should be transferred to the Army and the Marine Corps for use alongside their AH-64A Apaches and AH-1 Super Cobras as part of an awesome, well-rounded CAS fleet that would support our ground troops with the best combination of the right stuff.

Under the terms of "The Treaty of Key West" of 1948, The Army cannot have fixed-wing combat aircraft. However, I never understood why the Marines didn't get the A-10, except that it is not fitted for carrier operations and making it so might make it too heavy to fly.

The A-10 seems some sort of embarassment to the USAF, who lost no time getting it out to ANG units. Although its combat record is brilliant, it is too slow, too cheap, and apparently too unglamorous for the USAF. It's kind of a replay of Vietnam, where undoubtedly one of the most effective aircraft in the inventory was the old 1948 Skyraider, with it's 5-ton bombload, 4 20MM cannon, Rockets, incredible loiter time, and excellent survivability. A sentence to a Skyraider squadron however, could kill your whole career!

[Born to Conserve]

I watched a 53 scream across a base without the power to slow down because the loadmaster had blown it on a very hot and humid day. The polot had used the K.E. of the roters to get of the ground and start moving forward before he realized he didn't have the engine power to slow down. They landed safely in a parking lot after flying over the headquarters and a highway at 50ft.

[John O]

no. The globe sight is a mast mounted sight. It contains low level TV and infrared imagers as well as a laser designator. It is not a radar.

The Navy uses the same sight (limited in numbers) for mine detection. It's a pretty cool device. I think the bird it flies on is the Kiowa Warrior but I may be mistaken in this. It's not on Apache's.

[Mark Felton]

"Personnaly, I think theyneed to work n a laser designated mortar shell, and make a Humvee into a large bore mortar carrier, have UAV's do the lasing"

They have Humvee configurations with laser designators, TOW missiles, and even Hellfire launcher versions.

[Mark Felton]

I think the bird it flies on is the Kiowa Warrior but I may be mistaken in this. It's not on Apache's.

Yes it flies on a Kiowa.

The Apache has a sight that is more capable than the MMS on the OH-58D. The TADS has better day and night optics along with a laser rangefinder/designator. There is also an upgrade program to replace the current FLIR with a 2nd Gen FLIR.

The theoretical advantage of the MMS is that it can observe the battlefield with the helicopter in defilade (the sight just peeking over the treeline).

[ItsTheMediaStupid]

It's kind of a replay of Vietnam, where undoubtedly one of the most effective aircraft in the inventory was the old 1948 Skyraider, with it's 5-ton bombload, 4 20MM cannon, Rockets, incredible loiter time, and excellent survivability. A sentence to a Skyraider squadron however, could kill your whole career!

Yes but the A-10 is no more outdated than the F-16. They were developed at the same time and with the same Air Force team. In fact the guy who developed the specs for the F-16 is a proponent for the A-10. They also use the same ejection seat.

[Mark Felton]

The A-10 was originally a US Army owned and operated aircraft. It transitioned to the Air Force during the 1980's (I think). It is an embarassment to the Air Force because they didn't develop it and they thought they had better aircraft for the CAS job. They were wrong. The loiter and ground attack role is owned by the A-10 just now, IMHO.

[Mark Felton]

" I have my doubts that it was scattered infantry that chewed up the Apaches. I am betting that it was ZSU fire that did it. Those things are real pains. They were saying that the Iraqis had ZSU's hidden in barns and such. "

I disagree. Men on the ground with Ak-47's or shoulder launched weapons are the single biggest threat to helicopters in this day and age. The reason is that they cannot be seen. A n Apache flying NOE and/or performing observation or launch are very close to the ground and within easy range of small arms fire. It will be only happenstance that they encounter small arms but when there are thousands of troops on the ground it will happen.

The ZSU's are radar guided and easily spotted. Even without the ZSU radar being active the vehicles themselves are passively detected by Longbow radars and until identified can be approached with caution. (One of the failings of a radar like Longbow, or most any radar, of course is the ability to reliably distinguish between a ZSU and a Toyota pick-up)

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

The A-10 was originally a US Army owned and operated aircraft.

Incorrect. The Army was never involved. The A-10 has been an Air Force plane since its inception; the genesis of the AX program, to replace the A-1, occurred in June of 1966. First flight was in May of 1972 and first A-10 delivery was to Davis-Monthan in October 1975. The A-10 was selected over Northrops' A-9.

[Flint]

After this disaster – which got little press because of the Pentagon's daily cover-up drills

This is the only thing I have a problem with. Would Hack think it better if the Pentagon had announced, during the war, that Iraq had a stratgy that proved to be very sucessful in dealing with our helicopter warfare?

[Tallguy]

I really hate the idea of my friends having to carry their M-16 bolts in plastic baggies in their Shirt pockets until a fire fight. Also I was really embarrased to see our soldiers on live TV in a combat situation with their M-16's wrapped in plastic and tape. That really sucks.

I think that support troops, like the 507th Maintenance, would have benefited from being armed with the old AK-47. Reports indicated that all of their M-16's jammed at the critical moment. Support troops obviously aren't as diligent at cleaning their weapons so they probably should be equipped with a more forgiving weapon.

[Wright is right!]

Hover In-Ground Effect (MRP)Normal Day 15,895 ft (4845 m)Hot Day 14,845 ft (4525 m)

Hover Out-of-Ground Effect (MRP)Normal Day 12,685 ft (3866 m)Hot Day 11,215 ft (3418 m)

Simple. On a normal day, the bird can hover IGE at full load above 15,895-foot MSL terrain, such as a mountain plateau. It can hover with full load at 12,685 feet altitude if there's no terrain around to provide ground effect.

Michael

[Mark Felton]

hhmmm...you're right. My mistake. I recall some squabbling between Army and Air Force over employment of the A-10, and some discussion of switching service to improve communications with ground troops etc...but it was 20 years ago, and I wasn't involved in any of those programs.

Thanks

[salmon76]

I have to admit that I was surprised at the way all of those Apaches were shot up in Iraq. However, I have no military experience or first-hand insight, so I’m not going to complain about we screwed up or that we have faulty equipment.

One thing that I do know and have confidence in is that we have the very BEST military that has ever been conceived by man, AND we have the very BEST leadership in charge of it. If there are problems with the Apache or any other equipment, I have full confidence that the problems will be fixed and the equipment made better.

The war in Afghanistan and Iraq will be studied by our military leadership for years to come, and it can only help to improve our awesome fighting force. I also have no doubt that God has blessed our nation beyond what some of us can conceive. It is no coincidence that our military is unmatched in the world, and, God willing, I hope that it will always be that way.

[SMEDLEYBUTLER]

Congress, in 1990, ordered the Air Force to turn over some of their A-10s to the Marine Corps and the Army beginning in 1991. The Air Force was keen on fielding an A-16 version of the Viper and 86'ing the Thunderbolt. That order was rescinded in November of 1990 and the Air Force was ordered to retain two wings of A-10s. The Army had argued that the 1948 Key West Agreement, which prohibits them from operating fixed wing combat aircraft, was obsolete. The Marine Corps didn't want the Thunderbolt at all.

[socal_parrot]

I've played golf at a golf course in Mesa, AZ named Longbow because it is across the street from the factory where these helicopters are made. Nothing will disrupt a golf swing more than four of these coming down a fairway in formation on a test flight.

[Tallguy]

I would love to see a next generation A-10.

Me too. But I think the next generation A-10 is likely to be a drone.

[usmcobra]

Give me a cobra any old day of the week.

The Apache is a bigger slower target.

When the new AH-1Z Model cobra comes out, the army will regret ever spending money on the Apache.