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A nifty rhetorical trick (SANTORUM IS RIGHT)
The Financial Times ^ | April 28, 2003 | Christopher Caldwell

Posted on 04/27/2003 3:11:30 PM PDT by MadIvan

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This is actually not bad for Caldwell.

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 04/27/2003 3:11:30 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: alnick; knews_hound; faithincowboys; hillary's_fat_a**; redbaiter; MizSterious; Krodg; ...
Bump!
2 posted on 04/27/2003 3:11:43 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
But, as Mr Santorum implied, it falls in the same category as many disreputable forms of sex such as prostitution, incest between adults, and polygamy - all of which are consensual. His argument was the one now being made by defenders of Texas's sodomy laws: the Supreme Court cannot open the door to gay rights without establishing other rights that Americans would find repugnant.

Anyone who wants to "chastise" Santorum for his "stance" runs up against not "rhetoric" but the english language itself. He was expressing an idea here, his idea is not without merit, it was not said in any pejorative way and the media, in trying to hype this as another "foot in mouth" Republican blunder are actually having to explain what the argument is about...a constitutional issue.

Once Americans stop "feeling" and start "thinking" about the real issue, then they realize there is no other way to frame this debate.

3 posted on 04/27/2003 3:29:42 PM PDT by Dutchgirl
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To: MadIvan
....they are simply airing an abiding national discomfort with homosexuality, which 55 per cent consider "morally wrong"...

That's right! Perhaps the silent majority will stop being silent and stand up to the Gaystapo now.
4 posted on 04/27/2003 3:35:20 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Beware the Fedayeen Rodham!)
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To: MadIvan
Rick Santorum is rapidly becoming my favorite senator--and he's not even from my state.
5 posted on 04/27/2003 3:37:40 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
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To: MadIvan
A question remains: if these conservative arguments are so constitutionally strong, why has it taken until now for a conservative politician to make them?

It's because the internet, Rush and Fox News are relatively new developments.

6 posted on 04/27/2003 3:40:38 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: MadIvan
bttt
7 posted on 04/27/2003 3:48:42 PM PDT by firewalk
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To: MadIvan
White House backs Santorum; he's 'inclusive' But other Senate Republicans, including Majority Leader Bill Frist of Tennessee and Pennsylvania Sen. Arlen Specter, have affirmed their support for Santorum.

Senator learns the hard way: Intolerant homosexual activists attack the free speech of those who disagree with them, Santorum’s comments reflected the arguments made in 14 amicus briefs submitted to the Supreme Court in support of Texas’s sodomy statute, as well as arguments heard in court on March 26. The attack on Santorum underscores that radical homosexual activists have no intention of recognizing anyone else’s right to free speech.

Santorum Furor Shows Irrationality of Homosexuality Debate, Santorum is right, and need not make apologies to anyone—least of all pro-homosexual groups. Because their arguments are irrational, these groups must resort to the demonization of their opponents. They use intimidation tactics to shut up all those who dare oppose their agenda of "confirming vice as virtue" under force of law. When it comes to National Defense and security, maybe America should start looking inward. Because the very liberating freedoms we are fighting for in the world arena are being not so subtly stolen from us by a PC crowd that demands that society make them comfortable with their vices.

Just where does the promotion of aberrant behavior as a civil right end? The entire premise is ludicrous, as anarchy is the inevitable result. Good states are classically defined by their promotion of societal common good as referenced in Aristotle's Politics. How can the legitimization of behavior that is so filthy it cannot be described in mixed company without conveying the most revolting feelings be considered "tending toward the common good"? The pro-sodomy lobby takes advantage of this very revulsion for homosexual acts, knowing full well that many individuals do not have the stomach for rightly describing them publicly.

[This is the consequence of conceding the field to militant homosexual advocates who politically bastardize the language. They tell us that sodomy is "gay," and that "sexual perversion" somehow evolved to "sexual deviance," then to "sexual preference," and finally to "sexual orientation"—an evolution necessary to anesthetize the public as to what is really going on. The final "evolved" state, "sexual orientation," has been proven to be a lie many times over. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever indicating that an orientation to homosexual acts is innate and final. In fact, the evidence is to the contrary, with the absence of a "gay" gene admitted by homosexual researchers, and the success of reparative (ex-"gay") therapy admitted by representatives from the American Psychiatric Association, and the American Psychological Association.

Militant homosexual advocates need to look in the mirror before accusing anyone of being on the fringe. Homosexual journals and publications have promoted de facto child sexual abuse under the guise of "intergenerational intimacy"—where the authors tell parents that they should welcome the "loving" pedophile into their homes.

[And how is standing up for the promotion of societal common good being extremist, in view of the considerable evidence that sodomy brings with it many serious physical and psychological consequences? It is common knowledge that the main reservoir for HIV/AIDS in America remains with the homosexual community, per the consistent statistics kept by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention for years.

[To be compassionate does not mean lying to individuals about the consequences of their aberrant behavior. Integral to the definition of compassion is a desire to alleviate the cause of the distress. To confirm an individual in his/her vice is the opposite of compassion. Why is that truth so hard to see? Because "compassion"—like the word "gay"—has been redefined by militant homosexual advocates to mean confirming, not alleviating, the distress.]

The continued hypocrisy of Sens. [Tom] Daschle and [John] Kerry, who call themselves Catholic, is glaring in their demand that fellow Catholic Santorum step down. The church in this country should speak out in defense of politicians like Santorum who recognize that it is not enough to follow one's conscience. The conscience must be informed in accordance with the teachings of the Faith, especially the eternal truths of the Natural Law. ]

Again, what's next, a constitutional right to bestiality? After all, the pervert [bestialist] in question, I am sure, will ensure that his despicable acts are performed in private—which makes them OK, as privacy trumps all, right? No matter that the allowance of the private act wounds society severely. And can you imagine the gall of homosexual activists denouncing the analogy to incest because that behavior is "wrong" and "unhealthy"? Fifty years ago, until the perverted homosexual researcher Alfred Kinsey came along, homosexual acts were unspeakable. Advocates for the unnatural and unhealthy act of sodomy have no basis upon which to declare other perversions as immoral.

[Also, did you ever notice that when it comes to sexual hedonism, the only "choice" allowed is for sexual gratification? Certainly, the "pro-choice" disciples could care less about the baby's choice to survive—he is the one party who is never allowed a choice before being brutally killed by abortion.

[What is about to happen in the Supreme Court regarding the Texas decision for/against acts of sodomy is comparable to Roe v. Wade. That horrendous mistake must not be repeated. Sadly, we must remember that we're dealing with a court which, in Planned Parenthood vs. Casey, incredibly said that every individual can define his own universe with applicable laws made to his choosing. His choice can take place without any consideration for the inevitable collision with his neighbors’ equally relevant universe. The author of that decision (Justice Anthony Kennedy) somehow calls himself a Catholic.

8 posted on 04/27/2003 4:12:31 PM PDT by Remedy
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To: MadIvan
Fred Barnes on Fox News quoted Former Supreme Court Justice Byron White stating the same thing as Santorum in one of his opinions
9 posted on 04/27/2003 4:14:36 PM PDT by uncbob ( building tomorrow)
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To: MadIvan
I will continue to stand by Senator Santorum.
It matters very little what is acceptable or what is not. It matters very little how one rationalizes devoid morality.
What does matter is sin.
The Lord God has spoken.
There's no way around God's Holy Word.
God has set the Standard for Morality. Period.
I pray all who read this thread will consider this post:

1 Corinthians 6:9
"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,"

Homosexuality, like all other types of fornication and perversion
is abhorant and abominable! (Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13) Regardless of what modern promoters of "gay liberation/Politically Correct" might wish to believe, SEXUAL PERVERSIONS ARE NOT INHERITED GENETICALLY, but rather are LEARNED BEHAVIORS and WILLFUL SINS.
If one is troubled by lustful thoughts they have a choice to be responsible and seek counsel/take control of the thoughts they dwell upon or act upon them and suffer the social, physical and yes, eternal consequences.
No one forces others to become Sodomites! It's a personal choice. We are all free moral agents.

I pray more and more people will stand for Righteousness and not cow-tow like "Sheeple" to what is now commonplace and accepted in our society.

It's time to be Politically Incorrect and be right with God, because, no one is promised a tomorrow.

II Corinthians 10v5
"Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity EVERY thought to the obedience of Christ."

If you think I've side tracked this thread I apologize to MadIvan. I do not apologize for posting my opinion nor God's Holy Word, EVER.
10 posted on 04/27/2003 4:16:14 PM PDT by MeekMom ((HUGE Ann Coulter Fan!!!) (Missing the Gipper Terribly!))
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To: Kevin Curry
No doubt!
11 posted on 04/27/2003 4:17:54 PM PDT by MeekMom ((HUGE Ann Coulter Fan!!!) (Missing the Gipper Terribly!))
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To: Kevin Curry
I wish we could trade him for Voinovich.
12 posted on 04/27/2003 4:18:36 PM PDT by Ferret Fawcet (as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. -Joshua 24:15)
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To: MadIvan
"putting homosexuality on the same moral plane as incest is repulsive"

I agree. The idea of one man sticking his privates up another man's butt is far more repulsive than the idea of incest.

13 posted on 04/27/2003 4:47:50 PM PDT by Bubba_Leroy
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"[I]it would be difficult, except by fiat, to limit the claimed right to homosexual conduct while leaving exposed to prosecution adultery, incest, and other sexual crimes even though they are committed in the home." Bowers v. Hardwick, 478 U.S. 186, 195-96 (1986).

So is it now a political crime to paraphrase the United States Supreme Court?

14 posted on 04/27/2003 5:03:43 PM PDT by Bubba_Leroy
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To: Bigg Red
From the article: In any western democracy at any moment over the past decade, to invoke homosexuality and incest in the same breath would have had a predictable sequel. First, denunciation for insensitivity. Second, grovelling apologies accompanied by claims of misquotation. And finally, punishment of the sort meted out to Trent Lott ... Predictable because of liberalism's favorite budgeoning tool, Political Correctness. Perhaps now that the American people have been graphically reminded that the price for our liberties and our lawful society is counted in blood of the brave, the people are sick of the corrosive bullying by leftists democrats stabbing conservatives with the political correct speech. Maybe we've had enough already, with the speech police of the deviancy defending democrat party.
15 posted on 04/27/2003 5:16:31 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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To: MadIvan
Homosexuality is indeed in a different category from sex with children and animals. But, as Mr Santorum implied, it falls in the same category as many disreputable forms of sex such as prostitution, incest between adults, and polygamy - all of which are consensual. His argument was the one now being made by defenders of Texas's sodomy laws: the Supreme Court cannot open the door to gay rights without establishing other rights that Americans would find repugnant.

Exactly right, and as Santorum well stated, "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery."

The good news is that according to the latest Gallup poll, 55% of Americans are against homosexuality and as this article indicates, Satorum is winning the argument in the eyes of the public. The funniest thing of all is that even the Human Rights Campaign (HRC) which is the largest national lesbian and gay political organization in the country couldn't explain why Santorum was wrong, LOL.

A question remains: if these conservative arguments are so constitutionally strong, why has it taken until now for a conservative politician to make them? It is tough to say. It could be that Mr Santorum is just a brave, or reckless, man.

I think he is a real man, a man who has remained steadfast in his beliefs, and who is willing to express them regardless of the consequences. He doesn't need to call his friends to defend him. Just by reading this article, look at how many Democrats have congregated to attack him, Barney Frank, John Kerry, the liberal media went berserk and even the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee wants Santorum to resign his leadership post. Yet, Santorum didn't apologize or say he was misquoted. Real men have my total admiration!

16 posted on 04/27/2003 5:33:07 PM PDT by Victoria Delsoul
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To: MadIvan
Actually, Trent Lott never "expressed nostalgia for Southern segregation." He made a lame attempt to flatter Strom Thurmond, which the media interpreted as nostalgia for segregation...giving Lott more credit for knowledge of U.S. history than he probably possesses.
17 posted on 04/27/2003 6:23:58 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: nickcarraway
ping
18 posted on 04/27/2003 7:19:18 PM PDT by Desdemona
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To: MadIvan
I am starting to think this was all set up as a test for something, or some stance, the Republicans are going to do in the next election cycle.... or something that is going to happen legislatively.

If it was, I would call it a hugely successful test.
19 posted on 04/27/2003 8:02:22 PM PDT by JSteff
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To: MHGinTN
Let's hope this marks the beginning of the end of PC!!!
20 posted on 04/27/2003 8:30:17 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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