Do Older Workers Get a Fair Shake?

CFO.com ^ | April 25, 2003 | Kelly Greene

[SwinneySwitch]

Lay Off First!

[Mears]

Welcome to the real world,boomers!!

[1066AD]

The various networking etc groups I've seen recently, regardless of affiliation, definitely have one thing in common - there are few, if any, people younger than mid/upper 40s in them.

[dark_lord]

It is simple. Companies have realized that if they lay off older workers, they reduce their overall health care costs and will pay out far less in retirement benefits. And when they hire workers, they can pay older workers the same as younger workers, thus in effect devaluing their experience.

Logically, if experience has value, then companies will pay for it. But if experience cannot be quantified, then it will not be valued. And mostly it cannot be quantified, especially over the short term.

Experience will keep a company from driving into a ditch. But not driving into the ditch is not quantifiable -- you cannot prove a negative, and you cannot put a value on something that didn't happen (actually, you can, but they won't because since it didn't happen it might not have happened anyway, right?)

[ClearCase_guy]

Hey, weren't the Baby Boomers the generation that said, "Young people should rule the world. Don't trust anyone over thirty." Now the aging Baby Boomers are saying "I may be old, but I still have value."

What goes around, comes around.

[crz]

Older workers are the cream of the crop. For the most part, they know how to solve a problem when it comes up without having to go higher up for directions-nip it in the butt before it gets out of hand.

Sad fact is, the "New Wave" corporations and business is to hire young book smart young workers that panic when trouble comes up. Many of these new young grads learning is that its alright to walk away from a problem as a failure than to address it and correct it. The result is a lot of business is falling apart as a result. They tend to think the profit margin is more important than success. In short, they are investors first, and businessmen second.

[NYDave]

Let's not discount the huge numbers of jobs that are being outsourced to foreign countries like India. I'm pushing 60 and have been in the IT business since the mid-sixties. It's definately a changing world out there. I was "retired" more than a year ago. The rumor was that the company wanted to get rid of the folks over 50. The upside is that I may be going back there as a consultant on a project with which I have knowledge that others don't have. Hell, I wrote the book on a specific portion of it that is still in use. Hey, folks, dye your hair, join a gym, get a tummy tuck or whatever is necessary to remain viable. I'll outpace any young punk half my age.

[chimera]

What I have noticed as a difference between younger workers in my field and those with experience is an inability to improvise and be innovative in finding solutions to unexpected problems that come up, especially, for some reason, in dealing with hardware issues. I had a guy for whom the solution to everything was "reboot, reinstall". And when that didn't work, he was paralyzed. He had no clue as to how to proceed, or even develop a methodology or strategy for resolving the problem. He'd come crying to the oldsters (the ones with experience) for help. So I'd ask him, well, okay, your system isn't working and you tried the software thing, what about something simple, like a cable failure, or ground loop, or crosstalk, or even a supply voltage a little drifted out of spec. The dude had no clue as to what those even were, much less of how to manage troubleshooting them. So, anecdotal evidence, I know, but its led me to place some measure of value, even if its non-quantitative, on experience.

[Nachoman]

But 24 million U.S. workers will need to be replaced by 2008 because of death or retirement, according to government estimates. Because of the smaller pool of workers following the baby boom, as many as 4.6 million jobs could go unfilled.

I wonder if this figure takes into account workers who were prematurely "pursuaded" to go into retirement?

[Willie Green]

What I have noticed as a difference between younger workers in my field and those with experience is an inability to improvise and be innovative in finding solutions to unexpected problems that come up, especially, for some reason, in dealing with hardware issues.

They also have a tendency to have more "self esteem" than actual expertise, and whine a lot when the real world won't comply with their simplistic solutions.

[Little Bill]

When you are an older worker, like me, you have seen all the problems, you know how to solve them.

[NEWwoman]

When you are an older worker, like me, you have seen all the problems, you know how to solve them.

I agree. But I perceive companies do discriminate. Younger worker seem to get far more offers than older ones. Companies when they downsize shake off their more expensive, older workers for cheaper new hires. Sometimes the effects are (as Dilber put it) Bright Downsizing - a brain drain. This was most dramatic in aerospace when several attempted launches in the late 1990s blew up on the pad or something stupid happened to abort the mission

[Little Bill]

I can't argue with you there, I work for a power company, the troops call me the Kommandant. I know the place like the back of my hand, I know the jobs and I know the people, and in a heavily unionized environment I know the contract, I run a low keyed Watch.

[NEWwoman]

Did you ever see the movie "Rancho Deluxe" with Jeff or Beau Brdiges? Slim Pickens played an old geiser, who was a live stock detective hired by a rich rancher in Montana, who was having his cattle rustled. Everyone underestimated the Slim Pickens character as a stupid old man, who was not playing with a full a deck (kind of like how the Democratics liked to paint Ronald Reagan). In the end, the old man covertly used his wit, his instinct, and years of experience to quickly nab the rustlers red handed, while everyone else was chasing a red herring. This old man quickly earned the admiration and respect of the rancher.

[Little Bill]

Slim Pickens

As an Intermountian Westerner, Slim is a hero, along with the dumb Southerner. I used to watch my grandfather buying a piece of live stock, fat old man, True Grit, the dance that went on was a hoot. Both people had a break price and you had to play the game or you were an emmigrant and fair game.

[RobRoy]

Heh, I'm 49 and a consultant (mainframe, COBOL, believe it or not). My ability to earn money DEPENDS on my ability to be WORTH it. I am. When my industry goes south, I go back into real estate.

Funny thing is, certain "ways of thinking" that can be so profitable were a mind boggling struggle when I was in my 20's and even 30's to no small degree. Now they are as natural as riding my bike. You can lose your "job" but this "way of thinking" cannot be taken away. It is literally a part of you, and valuable.

[k2blader]

Haa!

[RobRoy]

>>These concerns may seem academic at a time of layoffs and cutbacks. But 24 million U.S. workers will need to be replaced by 2008 because of death or retirement, according to government estimates. Because of the smaller pool of workers following the baby boom, as many as 4.6 million jobs could go unfilled.<<

This is really good news for those over fifty, and Indians (dot in the forehead, not redskin).

[BureaucratusMaximus]

When you are an older worker, like me, you have seen all the problems, you know how to solve them.

There is so much truth to that. I've often wondered why there not more apprenticeship programs in non-blue collar fields like IT, accounting, management, finance, and law. There is so much to learn when one can observe and mimic someone who has done a certain job for a long period time. Its how people should be educated...book smarts can only go so far, and cannot possibly cover every scenario. I currently work in IT, and learned much more from my father (who worked for the old Sperry-Univac company...now Unisys...at a time when computers still filled medium-sized rooms and PC's were in their infancy) than I ever learned in college.