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To: MHGinTN
If one removes a diploid and stimulates it into mitosis, reproduction of an individual human being is in evidence. Exploiting such derived individuals is the same as exploiting a fertilization derived individual.

Okay, why don't you just stop beating around the bush and come out and say that you don't like any of this research and you think all of it should be banned out right? With this definition, you've ruled out any multiplication of any human cells at all, including adult stem cells, adult organ cells, and the cells from underneath your toenails - any experiment that involves replicating any human cells in any sort of artificial way is rendered out of bounds by your sweepingly broad definition here....

120 posted on 04/24/2003 9:38:27 PM PDT by general_re (You're just jealous because the voices are talking to me....)
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To: general_re
Poor syllogistic flow. You asserted: With this definition, you've ruled out any multiplication of any human cells at all, including adult stem cells, adult organ cells, and the cells from underneath your toenails - any experiment that involves replicating any human cells in any sort of artificial way is rendered out of bounds by your sweepingly broad definition here.... I did not rule out 'any manipulations of ANY human cells at all'. If you go back and read what I posted originally, I happened to mention: 'Science may one day be able to reproduce a part of the whole organism, as in growing only a kidney that is a perfect tissue match for the individual from whom the genetic nuclear material is taken; that would be an embraceable medical miracle.'

Perhaps the confusion is over when I define an individual human being as existing, and the differentiation of organ and organism. I attempted to explain that an embryo is already an individual human being, else the many tests performed prior to birth would be too generic if not done on the assumption that the organism being tested is already the oirganism to be presented at birth. The organism is being tested for anomalies. The organism that is you was already you when you implanted your life in the uterine lining of your Mother. You did that. You sent the chemical messages out that manipulated your Mother's womb environment, to accomplish your implantation. You have gone through many changes during your lifetime, but you were always you during those many changes.

Stem cells are the organs of the embryo. Toenails are tissue of the organism. A kidney is an organ within the organism. The embryo is an organism. The stem cell of an embryo is an organ of the embryonic organism.

122 posted on 04/24/2003 10:05:16 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support from someone. Promote Life Support for others.)
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