[MHGinTN]

Poor syllogistic flow. You asserted: With this definition, you've ruled out any multiplication of any human cells at all, including adult stem cells, adult organ cells, and the cells from underneath your toenails - any experiment that involves replicating any human cells in any sort of artificial way is rendered out of bounds by your sweepingly broad definition here.... I did not rule out 'any manipulations of ANY human cells at all'. If you go back and read what I posted originally, I happened to mention: 'Science may one day be able to reproduce a part of the whole organism, as in growing only a kidney that is a perfect tissue match for the individual from whom the genetic nuclear material is taken; that would be an embraceable medical miracle.'

Perhaps the confusion is over when I define an individual human being as existing, and the differentiation of organ and organism. I attempted to explain that an embryo is already an individual human being, else the many tests performed prior to birth would be too generic if not done on the assumption that the organism being tested is already the oirganism to be presented at birth. The organism is being tested for anomalies. The organism that is you was already you when you implanted your life in the uterine lining of your Mother. You did that. You sent the chemical messages out that manipulated your Mother's womb environment, to accomplish your implantation. You have gone through many changes during your lifetime, but you were always you during those many changes.

Stem cells are the organs of the embryo. Toenails are tissue of the organism. A kidney is an organ within the organism. The embryo is an organism. The stem cell of an embryo is an organ of the embryonic organism.

[general_re]

Nah. You said something along the lines of stimulating mitosis in diploid cells was creating potential individuality, or something to that effect. Well, diploid cells are pretty much all we've got to work with, so by that definition, I'm essentially toying with human life by, say, causing skin cells to replicate in the lab. Needless to say, any definition of "human life" that stretches out that far is going to wind up creating some perverse effects - your tonsils have a full complement of diploid cells, some of which may even manage to replicate just after being removed from your throat. But if and when that happens, if it hasn't already, I don't really think you'll be planning a funeral for the tragic loss of potential human life that your tonsils represent.

Stem cells are the organs of the embryo. Toenails are tissue of the organism. A kidney is an organ within the organism.

Just because a thing is differentiated into various substructures and organs and parts doesn't make it an organism unto itself, and certainly doesn't make it an embryo. The front end of your large intestine is remarkably different from the back end, but that doesn't make your large intestine an organism unto itself. Every one of your cells is composed of specialized parts and structures and organelles - not one of them is capable of ever surviving on its own. The fact that parthenotes have undergone some differentiation from cells that are akin to stem cells does not make them embryos. Whether embryonic me was me all along is neither here nor there - with parthenotes, there's nobody at home, and there's never going to be anybody at home.