THE NATIONAL SALES TAX HOAX

uhuh.com ^ | John William Kurowski

[sheltonmac]

"The Founder's method of taxing consumption began with an external tax on imports at our water's edge, and was extended to reach internal consumption only if external taxation were found insufficient."

One of the questions I have labored over concerning a national sales tax is this: if it is constitutional, and if Congress already has the power to tax anything it wants, why isn't there a national sales tax on everything already? I think the author's point, that our focus should be on external taxation, deserves some serious examination.

[Principled]

A National Sales Tax is very different from a National Retail Sales Tax.

A national RETAIL sales tax is not what is described in the first paragraphs above. The word RETAIL changes everything.

FAQ here.

[JohnGalt]

While I agree with the end in mind (you already knew that) many of us (at least back in the Steve Forbes day) say the flat tax coupled with an abolition of the withholding tax as the key to eliminating the income tax or really, the concept of direct taxation from DC entirely.

Imagine having to cough up on average $10K every April 15? Big government would last one maybe two election cycles and people would again rely on their states to provide goods and services. Anyway, I see the flat tax as an incremental change and repealing the 16th Amendment as a non-starter, though I am listening.

I agree that with the exception of Chief Negotiator (RIP) every time I get involved in a debate with NST folks, it seems clear that their only end in mind is the elimination of the IRS not the complete elimination of direct taxation from the DC tax regime.

[Always Right]

....burdens the American Citizen in its collection; and, is to be paid BY the farmer, mechanic, laborer, etc. who will continue to see the intrusion of the "tax gatherer of the United States" if such a system is adopted!

One thing that is often ignore by its proponents is the NRST imposes a tax on goods AND services. This means millions of people who are self-employed will have to charge a 30% tax on top of their services.

[Willie Green]

Woohooooo!

GREAT POST!!!

[sheltonmac]

*PING*

[Blood of Tyrants]

There are literally dozens of federal "sales" taxes already except they are called "excise taxes". As it stands, the federal government skims off the top (income taxes) and the middle (corporate taxes which are hidden the in the price of the goods) while state governments skim off the top (state income taxes) and bottom (sales taxes).

Believe me, if the government could figure a way to impose a 10% or higher sales tax on all goods, IN ADDITION TO all they are taking now, without causing a revolt they would. The government sees you as nothing more than a sorce of money to take from so that the elite can buy power and votes and influence.

[LetsRok]

The reason a national sales tax will never work is that it takes the power away from legislatures. Politicans have power because they have the ability to favor one group and punish another through tax policy. If all taxes were doled out equally, then the politicans would have nothing to use to "shake down" a group or industry for a campaign contribution.

[sheltonmac]

I agree. I think the first (and easiest) step would be to eliminate withholding. That would get the ball rolling. The only way a sales tax would even start to make a difference is if the income tax is eliminated altogether. Otherwise you'd have both an income tax AND a national sales tax, and we'd be even worse off than we are now.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Here we go again....

Myopic FReepers would still rather report their income to the Feds via a "flat" tax.

The flat tax will again become the monstrous daddy that it is now if it's ever passed after the vulture lobbyists circle overhead and pick out their deductions for the special-interests groups.

Current unconstitional income tax is also a VAT - the prices for goods and services are adjusted to pay the hidden taxes paid to make the product.

The NRST would also tax the underground economy - drug dealers have to buy ziploc bags, homeless bums have to buy clothes from somewhere (unless if they buy it from a rummage sale, then it's not taxed again because it's already taxed)

[Principled]

You typed NRST, but what you say is not true about the RETAIL sales tax.

[CGTRWK]

A 19th century government can be paid for with import taxes. The behemoth we have now can't. We have about 1.2 trillion dollars in annual imports, or about half as much as the feds squander.

For all intents and purposes there already is a national sales tax on everything you buy, although it isn't presented as such. Income and excise taxes on every level of domestic production and distribution make everything you buy cost 50-150% more than it would otherwise.

[Poohbah]

One of the questions I have labored over concerning a national sales tax is this: if it is constitutional, and if Congress already has the power to tax anything it wants, why isn't there a national sales tax on everything already?

Because it's rather obvious, unlike (for example) a VAT, or income tax withholding.

You would actually see how much the government is costing you, every single day, day in, day out, on every sales receipt and that would lead to the question: "Am I paying too much money to Uncle?"

The politicians don't want to take the chance.

Raising the sales tax a mere 0.25% in California takes a lot of effort. This is a good thing.

[toothless]

"drug dealers have to buy ziploc bags"

Yea, thats such a huge percent of their operating costs. :-o

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

You hit the nail on the head. Those who are against the NRST live in an idyllic early 1800s world (not that there's anything wrong with that) where import duties and fees would fund the government.

The current gov't will NEVER return back to it's constitutional limits. Unfortunately, there will be unconstitutional federal depts and orgs hanging around.

[Extremely Extreme Extremist]

Unfunny sarcasm aside, you get the idea.

[Poohbah]

They also have to buy Ferraris, mansions, the latest clothing, rap CDs, champagne for the parties, et cetera, and so on, and so forth...

[IJCR2]

Check your phone and utility bills.

[JohnGalt]

And I think just the opposite. Paying for government incrementally over time is how we end up with so many fees and taxes attatched to everything (read the receit on an airlplane ticket.)

A flat tax coupled with the elmination of withholding taxes will require Americans to write on average $10K checks every April 15. Big government won't last more than one, maybe two, election cycles.

[ex-snook]

"The reason a national sales tax will never work is that it takes the power away from legislatures. "

Power is the mark. But suggest a step deeper. The legislators are financed by lobbyists and lobbyists are financed by those who provide the funds and these are the ones do not want to lose that power.