Rowan Williams apologises to Freemasons

Telegraph (UK) ^ | 20/04/2003 | Chris Hastings and Elizabeth Day

[nickcarraway]

The Archbishop of Canterbury, Dr Rowan Williams, has been forced to apologise to Britain's 330,000 Freemasons after he said that their beliefs were incompatible with Christianity and that he had rejected them from senior posts in his diocese.

Dr Williams has written to Robert Morrow, the Grand Secretary of the United Grand Lodge of England, in an attempt to defuse the row prompted by comments he made last year. In his letter, the Archbishop apologises for the "distress" he caused and discloses that his own father was a member of the Craft.

Freemasons, many of whom are active members of the Church of England, reacted angrily to his disclosure that he "had real misgivings about the compatibility of Masonry and Christian profession" and by his admission that, as Bishop of Monmouth, he had blocked the appointment of Freemasons to senior appointments.

His comments about Freemasons were in a private letter leaked to the media shortly after Downing Street confirmed his appointment as head of the Church of England.

Subsequent attempts by his advisers to defuse the row only caused further offence. A spokesman said the Archbishop was worried about the ritual element of Freemasonry, which has been seen as "satanically inspired".

In his letter of apology, Dr Williams tries to distance himself from his own reported comments. He claims that his views were never meant to be public and were distorted by the media.

He wrote: "I have been sorry to learn of the distress of a considerable number of Freemasons . . . In replying to private correspondence, I had no intention of starting a public debate nor of questioning the good faith and generosity of individual Freemasons and I regret the tone and content of the media coverage."

He added: "The quoted statements about the 'satanic' character of the Masonic ceremonies and other matters did not come from me and do not represent my judgment. Since my late father was a member of the Craft for many years, I have had every opportunity of observing the probity of individual members."

Dr Williams does not, in his letter, deny that he has misgivings about the role of Freemasons within the Church.

He wrote: "Where anxieties exist, however, they are in relation not to Freemasonry but to Christian ministers subscribing to what could be and often is understood [or misunderstood] as a private system of profession and initiation, involving the taking of oaths of loyalty."

He ends his letter by stating that Freemasons' commitment to charity and the community is beyond question.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

For that matter, where does the Constitution say "Go out into the world and make it democratic"?

Not anywhere that I am aware of: However, it does say to kick the sh*t out of anyone or anything, (nation state, etc) (arab world) that threatens the United States.

[american colleen]

The Prince. Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press. Plaidy, Jean. (1967).

Jean Plaidy, aka Victoria Holt aka Phillipa Carr - writer of historical romance fiction.

The Spanish Inquisition. New York: The Citadel Press. Roth, Cecil. (1964).

Renowned Jewish historian who said (keeping in mind the climate of the Inquisition years when the Muslims were trying to invade Spain and Catholic Spain was fighting back) "The Spanish Jews welcomed, it is even said that they invited, the Arab invasion. Under the Caliphate of the West, with its capital at Cordova, their numbers [the Jews] grew and they attained great influence in the State" (Cecil Roth, in Vallentine’s Jewish Encyclopedia, p.612)

The Spanish Inquisition. United States of America: W. W. Norton & Company, Inc.

The publishing company of Cecil Roth's "The Spanish Inquisition" - not a source of information in and of themselves.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

You deny the Inquisition ever happened?

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Jean Plaidy, aka Victoria Holt aka Phillipa Carr - writer of historical romance fiction.

The Spanish Inquisition is a historical romance fiction?

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Renowned Jewish historian who said (keeping in mind the climate of the Inquisition years when the Muslims were trying to invade Spain and Catholic Spain was fighting back) "The Spanish Jews welcomed, it is even said that they invited, the Arab invasion. Under the Caliphate of the West, with its capital at Cordova, their numbers [the Jews] grew and they attained great influence in the State" (Cecil Roth, in Vallentine’s Jewish Encyclopedia, p.612)

If so, the Jews may have had a reason for doing so. Perhaps living under an oppressive Catholic regime.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Looks like we are getting a new set of anti-Masonic Catholics weighing in here on the thread.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

I didn't realize how fighting such ignorance can be so tiring. If you are up to it, continue on with the fight.

I am tired of beating my head against the wall trying to dispel the stupidity of the ignorant.

[american colleen]

I was merely illustrating the type of sources you used. A prolific writer of historical romance fiction and a Jewish historian whose bias may have blinded him to some of the facets of the Inquisition.

You may want to read this: "The Inquisition Reexamined" for a short overview of the times of the Spanish Inquisition. In fact, Isabella was quite tolerant of the Jewish population and they were not oppressed at all.

[AxelPaulsenJr]

Yeah, I just read an interesting account of the Inquisition in the "Catholic Encylopedia", I bet there is no bias there!

[TradicalRC]

Wow. 389 posts and not one mentions the freemasons overtaking the funeral procession of Pope Pius IX and throwing his body into the Tiber.

Until this one.

oops.

[nhbob1]

The Inquisition came into being in the 13th Century. It's original task was to sniff out and eradicate the Cathar Heresy that was flourishing in Southern France. It worked hand-in-hand with the Catholic armies (led by Cardinals of the Roman Catholic Church) of the Albigensian Crusade to exterminate all the Cathars. I'm not sure what the numbers were, but whole towns and cities were slaughtered in the name of the Christ.

[Cap'n Crunch]

Nor any mention of their bogus ties to the Knight's Templar, King Solomon, Hiram Abiff...etc.

Doh!

[katnip]

389 posts and not one mentions the freemasons overtaking the funeral procession of Pope Pius IX and throwing his body into the Tiber.

I thought you were kidding and then did a google search. Wow!

[Cap'n Crunch]

Garibaldi and the boys. Benedict Arnold was a Mason too, they don't make much of a claim to him though. Ben Franklin brought him in I understand.

Good old Voltaire too.

Not to mention their ties to the Klan.

[BenR2]

Your demonstration of contempt prior to investigation projects the black hole that is the content of your character upon those you hold in such contempt.


////
How do you know how much investigation I have or have not done? (Hint: You're blowing smoke, Pard'ner, so please cool the morally superior routine. Clearly, you are deceived for supporting a blatantly unScriptural secret society.)

[Brian Allen]

<< How do you know how much investigation I have or have not done? >>

By way of the application of a certain intellectual efficiency. Your ignorance is palpable. Especially when you couple it with your self-righteousness and with your pride and presume to judge!

Cordially -- Brian

[American in Israel]

No, I became aware of the deception when I found a set of Mason books in the walls of an abandoned house. Out of curiosity I searched out more books to make sure of the source. I have masons in my family too.

Now you just go on and have fun, party away in the "good ole boys club" and when you stand before God tell him that all the evidence pointed to the truth, you just discounted it all and took the bloody oaths because it was all symbolism and sillyness.

But the whole answer is here in this thread. References from Mason books that you too can obtain, and to save you the time, I included page numbers.

The scriptures are also obtainable from the Bible, along with their references.

Short, sharp and sweet. At this point you have NO excuses...

It is easy to call me a fool, but not so easy to prove it.

[American in Israel]

Actually He spoke to the demons in the herd of pigs when the name legion came up. He was not identifying darkness, he was casting the demons out of the crazy man. They requested to be cast into the pigs, instead of the abyss.

Jesus showed mercy and cast them into the pigs. They of course promptly destroyed the pigs to be free. But it sure beat hanging around in a pit with a bunch of other demons for 3000 years waiting for sentencing.

Most times He did not bother to learn their names, He just commanded them by their job titles. I kinda suspect He demanded their names as a training session for the guys. After all, later in His name they cast out demons all across the Middle East and Europe.

But then, that is another story isn't it.

One of the primary signs of a religious cult is the redefinition of terms and words to new, secret meanings. There are many good books on the subject, they will also discuss Masonry at length, along with quite a few others.

[American in Israel]

Actually He spoke to the demons in the herd of pigs when the name legion came up. He was not identifying darkness, he was casting the demons out of the crazy man. They requested to be cast into the pigs, instead of the abyss.

Jesus showed mercy and cast them into the pigs. They of course promptly destroyed the pigs to be free. But it sure beat hanging around in a pit with a bunch of other demons for 3000 years waiting for sentencing.

Most times He did not bother to learn their names, He just commanded them by their job titles. I kinda suspect He demanded their names as a training session for the guys. After all, later in His name they cast out demons all across the Middle East and Europe.

But then, that is another story isn't it.

One of the primary signs of a religious cult is the redefinition of terms and words to new, secret meanings. There are many good books on the subject, they will also discuss Masonry at length, along with quite a few others.

So to identify darkness, and then the Lucifer is light thingie is, well, a reinventing of the wheel.

[American in Israel]

I am tired of beating my head against the wall trying to dispel the stupidity of the ignorant.

I find it telling, that in all the beating, the only thing said is how stupid, or ignorant or how much of a liar the proponents of the position you seek to discredit are. Never a word or a reference on the subject, just imprecations and curses. How about quoting some nice Masonry sources, or pointing some errors with facts? It beats pounding your head on the wall in pride.

But as a Master Mason of only the 32 degree, we would not expect you to know anything about the subject anyway. Leave it to us to have to puzzle it out from the outside. I may have a unclear picture because of all the efforts to keep the real picture hidden in secret, but what pieces I have are not of my aunt Mable, looks kinda nasty from here. How come democrats, Islamics, Masons and Liberals all argue the same style? Where's the BEEF?