Offshore outsourcing grows

The Atlanta Business Chronicle ^ | April 18, 2003 print edition | Anya Martin

[nanny]

Communists focus on unions, as a starting point

If that was ever true, it is in the past. The unions don't have that kind of strength anymore. They don't have that influence anymore.

I stand behind my statement - there are more communists in our government than in the labor unions. They are everywhere making environmental laws, school decisions, military decisions, foreign diplomacy decisions, trade decisions, - just anywhere they can have an influence from local to national politics. They are in the movies and tv to get in those subtle messages.

Don't let your hatred of the union, blind you to the facts. If you really would like to know or do something about it. If you just want to bash unions or hate them - then continue live 75 years in the past and look no further.

[nanny]

Yes, because more than one communist is in each union. And the largest unions are government unions.

Read my other post to you - but I was thinking more along the lines of politician type government people.

Maybe the ones in high levels making the laws and decisions -

I like one line quips that try to delfect the sustance of a post rather than actually discuss a post.

[Malsua]

Gonna chuck in my pennies.

My company a "Small to mid" is building a factory in China.

Labor costs are about 1/7th the costs here in the stats.

I don't agree with it, but can my company remain viable without exporting the labor? Doubt it. Again, understand, I'd rather we stay stateside and damn the torpedoes.

We pay line labor about 8 bucks an hour...paying a buck/hour or about $220 bucks a month for labor is seducing. Furthermore the workers line up out the door to get it...in China.

I don't like it, but viability is dependant on it. Even if my company goes belly up, someone will fill the need. I like cheap prices for stuff as does everyone. I don't know the answer...wish I did.

SARS might "fix" it though. That's something that may reverse this outsourcing issue. Domestic costs at home will skyrocket if we have to pay a guy $20/hour to build TVs and DVDs, but in all, that may not be such a bad thing.

-Mal

[frosty snowman]

Hey, I hear ya. I admit my faulty expectations were of my own making alone. In the foreseeable future I will be doing some short term consulting work to see if I can transition that into something better. So I am pretty much taking your advice here. I want to eventually work for myself instead of someone else, which is my long term goal.

[frosty snowman]

Huh? I never said IT jobs in the USA are going away. Just that the trend is that more of them will be service jobs while more and more production work is being done overseas.

[Vivaldi's Manifesto]

I just found out that my (silicon valley) company will no
longer be hiring talent from the states. All
engineering and qa positions will be hired from and
work from India. The writing is on the wall...

[Beck_isright]

Take my word for it. Form a consulting mafia. Use your connections nationwide. You'll be back to enjoying a $75K lifestyle in no time flat. The mess that the rookies made in the late 90's and Y2K fiasco is still being repaired on networks worldwide. And if you want some serious advice, there is a booming market in the Carribbean and Central America. You should see what those offshore gambling houses, banks and businesses are paying for good programmers if you can handle being out of the states 8 weeks at a time.....

[Beck_isright]

"Managers typically have no idea what software developers do anyway."

Please let me correct your statement:
Bad management typically has no idea what software developers do anyway.

And that is the truth.

[Beck_isright]

" I don't know the answer...wish I did. "

Refer to post #204; it may not be the answer, but it's a start, IMHO.

[MelBelle]

Thanks for the encouragement. I've had a nice career (17 years) at ARCO/BP/SAIC, all good things (Paycheck) must come to an end. I was hoping to line myself up to teach here in California, but that idea went down the tubes. They are pink sliping CA teachers left & right. I can look back into the field of admin assistant. I was a pretty darn good secretary.

[Malsua]

I'd like to take a shot at this. De-regulate further (something we'll never live to see). Make all payroll expenses below the board level a 100% tax deductible expense. No payroll tax, no income tax liability and restricted to American citizens only. Thus there would be incentives to stay in the USA and hire American employees only. Of course, that would require imagination and cunning and neither political party has anyone with the brass ones to do anything like this.

No problemo. I agree. As SARS nukes the world, the US worker gains. I'm willing to pay alot more for my items...MFG needs to return to us.

[GregoryFul]

Computer programming is redundant/repetitive, boring and intellectually uninteresting.

To each his own... I find that writing specifications is tedious and redundant. LOL

I find that software programs are exquisitely more precise, dynamic, and of higher dimension in the technical realm, then the specifications we use to describe them. When programming I find modes of expression that are not available in comprehendable written language. One is able to fold higher level concepts and a myriad of cognates into compact solutions to problems in a mathematical language.

Software is on the cutting edge of a vast unknown territory. Look at the genetic algorithms that construct novel and expert-defying electronic curcuits. Look at the artificial worlds being generated by Pixar & all. Look at the fantastic reshaping of the world as we know it brought out by the PC and its software. Look at the matchless prosecution of war facilitated by computer (software) enabled weapons. On all fronts, this mode of human expression is overwhelming past human endevor. About as unexciting as the Lewis and Clark expedition, I suppose.

While attending to the details and requisite precision may be tedious, the work and results are hardly uninterinting!

I'm sure that lots of 'programming' is banal, just like lots of writing is banal - but is is an error to characterize all such work as drivel. Like writing, programming provides a gigantic scale for undreamt compositions.

You reveal a profound misunderstanding of software when you dismiss computer programming as you do.

[Beck_isright]

Also refer to #347. I've had some friends do this and they are doing quite well now. Not home as much but they are making good money being a hired gun to clean up the messes some of the newbie System Admins left behind.

[USMMA_83]

Again, can't argue with you on any counts. What you said is true. The market does set the standard for the "in" thing. And, yes...there are downward pressures on the sofware development industry. There was a great lecture by an economist at MIT. He was talking about the US economy being a gazelle. Things (technology, inovation) move fast here...you have to keep pace with the technology and inovate. You have to be a gazelle - adapt and switch course to grow. The issue with software development was that it came and went rather quickly. There were people who were hoping to retire using their programming skills. We have to move on - Biotechnology, etc. We as a nation are inovators. Again, I want to congratulate you on your clear thinking. Well done!

[USMMA_83]

Man, such sound advise! Your children should thank their lucky stars they have you. Keep up the fight...we need more like you.

[TopQuark]

A change in government policy is the only thing that can restore equity.

Only a socialist gov't is in the business of establishing equity.

Your gov't is supposed to provide public goods efficiently and get out of your way otherwise, Willie Green. Can you explain, why or whether you consider yourself a conservative? There you go, Beck_isright: I am still not sure, do these people not hear what they say or they hear and mean it?

[TopQuark]

Please explain how the free market will solve this problem? Slave labor is unproductive in the long run.

The solution is just like with any any other commodity -- through a price mechanism. If you make $20/hour and produce 4 widgets, and a Chinese worker makes $8/hour and produces 2 widgets, once your salary falls to $16/hour or a penny lower, you are more useful than the slave labor.

[WRhine]

He was talking about the US economy being a gazelle. Things (technology, inovation) move fast here...you have to keep pace with the technology and inovate. You have to be a gazelle - adapt and switch course to grow.

What you don't fully appreciate is that innovation is NOT some eternal spring that only exists in America and which sprouts new gushers anytime we need them. Historically, scientific innovation and technological breakthroughs come in fits and starts and is entirely unpredictable when in comes to fruition. There are also NO assurances that America will have a lock on the latest Whiz-Bang technology that will lead to a new renaissance and prosperity for many. Especially these days when we export our technology all over the world.

To manage an economy based on the hope of eternally capitalizing on the latest scientific trends while ignoring the more mundane "heavy lifting" tasks of continually developing existing technology, which is the heart and soul of innovation anyway, is fool hardy at best. Also, the idea that MOST Americans have to change jobs and retrain every few years is laughable on its face. Why should they? Because some loud mouth contingent of "Free Trade" Loafers says this is so? Get Real. The end game of these trade policies is the destruction the American Middle Class and the vast wealth that goes with it...so that a tiny few can get rich in the process. When this becomes better known throughout the electorate more than a few politicians are going to be looking for retraining themselves.

Think about this: the MARXISTS in RED CHINA just LOVE YOUR TRADE POLICIES. That alone should tell you something.

[USMMA_83]

Think about this: the MARXISTS in RED CHINA just LOVE YOUR TRADE POLICIES. That alone should tell you something.

Well, in that case, let's just dismantle everything our country stands for.

[AndyJackson]

innovation is NOT some eternal spring that only exists in America and which sprouts new gushers anytime we need them.

Exactly. The IT revolution has happened and is pretty much saturated in today's economy, having become more or less another commodity and another service - as essential as it is, but no more so say than oil and gas or food.

Perhaps there will be another technical revolution in another field of equal magnitude in economic importance, but if the IT revolution is the third revolution after the industrial and agricultural revolutions, there is no promise. We may have to wait a few thousand years.