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To: ASTM366
The fire was started by the cult members, not the feds.

If they didn't murder police officers in cold blood this wouldn't have happened, cry me a river

9 posted on 04/19/2003 2:19:01 PM PDT by ContentiousObjector
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To: ContentiousObjector
The fire was started by the cult members, not the feds.

So I guess that gave the Feds the right to shoot them as they tried to escape the flames?

12 posted on 04/19/2003 2:22:24 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Drug prohibition laws help support terrorism.)
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To: ContentiousObjector
Then there would be the "51 day" thing. Its not like there wasn't a lot of patience.
13 posted on 04/19/2003 2:22:42 PM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine (going into an election campaign without the paleocons is like going to war without the French)
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To: ContentiousObjector
If they didn't murder police officers in cold blood this wouldn't have happened, cry me a river

The BATF had no authority to attempt a dynamic entry. By their own testimony, they planned to use deadly force preemptively; I have seen nothing to suggest that they did not do so prior to the Davidians' first shot.

Let's suppose, however, that there was one rogue Davidian who did fire first. Would that in any way, shape, or form, justify the thousands of rounds indiscriminately fired by BATF agents?

Personally, having seen the evidence and heard the BATF testimony, I believe that it is likely some, if not all, of the BATF fatalities were the result of "friendly fire" (since BATF agents who were injured there had bullets recovered which were of a type used only by the BATF, it seems likely the dead agents--whose autopsies were kept secret--may have done so as well).

Typical agent testimony: I was walking into a room when I saw some bullets come through the far wall, so I fired at that wall a bunch of times. If that isn't a recipe for friendly fire (especially when using ammo which can penetrate multiple walls), what is?

19 posted on 04/19/2003 2:38:53 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: ContentiousObjector
The Feds shot first, and all the Davidians were acquitted of the charge of Murder.

Facts are stubborn things....

L

49 posted on 04/19/2003 3:26:40 PM PDT by Lurker ("One man of reason and goodwill is worth more, actually and potentially, than a million fools" AR)
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To: ContentiousObjector
If they didn't murder police officers in cold blood this wouldn't have happened, cry me a river

It was an obscene abuse of power, it wasn't even the police, it was the US military, moron !
128 posted on 04/19/2003 4:47:58 PM PDT by John Lenin (Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy,)
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To: ContentiousObjector
"If they didn't murder police officers in cold blood this wouldn't have happened..."

The cops shot first, when they drove the cattle trailer up to the front door and shot Koresh, and killed his daughter. Any and all shooting after that took place as a purely defensive measure by the Davidians. The Feds were the aggressors.

If you look at the video taken when the second assault took place, the one on which the JBT's got their asses handed to them, you will note that there is a line of vehicles with many feds behind them shooting at the Davidians as the assault and retreat took place. See any return fire towards them? No bullet holes in any of the vehicles, or puffs of dust from rounds into the ground around them.

If the Davidians were equipped with the firepower and the will to use it, as is alledged, those Feds behind those cars would have been in serious trouble from even a half-assed marksman.

It matters not who started the fire. The Feds created the environment for the tragedy. If the Feds weren't so hell-bent on proving their manhood, they could have placed a perimeter around the place, parked a guy in a lawn chair with a cell phone, and just waited them out. With even a minute amount of common sense, there never would have been a fire, or for that matter, a "seige" in the first place

238 posted on 04/19/2003 7:19:10 PM PDT by wcbtinman (Metus improbos compescit, non clementia. (Fear, not kindness, restrains the wicked.))
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To: ContentiousObjector
The fire was started by the cult members, not the feds.

the fire was started by feds. DO you believe the feds reports?

243 posted on 04/19/2003 7:25:13 PM PDT by FreeSpeechZone
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To: ContentiousObjector
The fire was started by the cult members, not the feds.

I certainly agree that this was the cause of the fire. It appears that this was similar to the Jim Jones incident. However the government probably could have done a slicker job in defusing the situation. The people running the show on the FBI side appear to have been like the managers at NASA before the Challenger disaster.

316 posted on 04/19/2003 9:09:22 PM PDT by wideminded
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To: ContentiousObjector
If they didn't murder police officers in cold blood this wouldn't have happened, cry me a river

Video evidence proves that some federal agents entered the window, and only after, fire came
from that window, killing the four remaining outside.

350 posted on 04/20/2003 8:03:07 AM PDT by I_dmc
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