Posted on 04/19/2003 9:50:08 AM PDT by MeekOneGOP
10 years after Waco siege, police face another standoff
04/19/2003
GUN BARREL CITY, Texas – Sheriff J.R. "Ronny" Brownlowe isn't ready for a showdown. Not like the one 10 years ago a few miles outside Waco.
On Saturday, survivors will mark the passing of a decade since at least 74 people died at the fiery end of the Branch Davidian siege. But for Sheriff Brownlowe's Henderson County deputies, it will only be another day in another standoff, now nearly three years old.
Militant fundamentalist John Joe Gray, 54, retreated to his 47 acres near Cedar Creek Lake about 40 miles southeast of Dallas after warrants were issued for his arrest in May 2000. Seven adults and three children are believed to be holed up on his property, hunting, fishing, planting gardens and patrolling the land with guns.
"The entire thing is not worth one of those children getting hurt," said Sheriff Brownlowe.
Patience may not always work, but Sheriff Brownlowe is willing to try. It's a lesson he and other law officers took from Waco, where those who lived through the 51-day siege still debate whether greater patience could have changed the outcome.
In the past decade the government's handing of the standoff has been held up as an example of how not to deal with militant groups. Negotiators and tactical leaders were sometimes at cross-purposes, especially when FBI commanders, smarting from the deaths of four federal agents during the Feb. 28 gunfight that started the standoff, opted to make a strong show of force to weaken the will of the Branch Davidians.
"I think there was a belief that if you put enough pressure on this group that has killed federal agents... then the psychic glue that holds them together will crack and they'll come in one by one two by two and surrender," said Clint Van Zandt, a lead FBI negotiator at Waco. "Had it worked we all would have said, 'Hooray.' "
It didn't work. The raid – to search the Mount Carmel compound for illegal weapons and arrest sect leader David Koresh on weapons charges – and the tough tactics which followed seemed to confirm the Branch Davidians' belief that they would face an apocalyptic ending in a battle with the government.
Ten Bradley fighting vehicles, two Abrams tanks and five other combat engineer vehicles were brought to the scene to counter the heavily armed sect members.
"How do you protect your agents against a 50 caliber rifle? You put them in a tank," said Danny Coulson, an FBI deputy assistant director at the time of the standoff. "It hurt to see FBI agents in tanks, but on the other hand, would you rather see an FBI agent with his head blown off?"
Breakdown of trust
Negotiators worked constant 12-hour shifts. Dozens of agents, including snipers, surrounded the property northeast of Waco.
Federal agents allowed Branch Davidians to retrieve their dead for burial, gave them medical supplies, milk and food, and even allowed the retrieval of Bible study materials left in a car.
At first, negotiators made steady progress in persuading Mr. Koresh to send out members of the sect, especially children.
On March 2, authorities arranged to have a 58-minute religious message by Mr. Koresh aired on the radio. But he reneged on a promise to surrender afterward, saying God told him to remain inside to write an interpretation of the Seven Seals mentioned in the Book of Revelation.
Trust began to break down.
Dr. Nancy Ammerman, a religion and sociology expert who co-authored a 1993 report to the Justice Department critical of how the FBI handled the standoff, said commanders failed to properly consider the depth of the Branch Davidians' beliefs.
"When they refer to the way Davidians talk as 'Bible babble' then you have to wonder about the level of respect," she said.
Mr. Van Zandt disagreed.
"I was on my phone multiple times calling back to my pastor in Virginia just bouncing ideas off him. ... I spent 2 ½ hours with Koresh one night one-on-one because he wanted to talk to someone who was a Christian."
Mr. Coulson said Mr. Koresh reneged on several promises of surrender. By March 23, 35 people had left the compound, but little trust remained. Only two more sect members would leave before April 19.
Determining tactics
Starving out the Branch Davidians was not an option. Officials believed they had a year's worth of food and plenty of water.
Tactical commanders rejected Mr. Van Zandt's idea to erect a tall fence around the compound and send the military hardware away.
"At a barricade situation like Waco or Ruby Ridge" where federal agents had been killed, "the people involved are anywhere from afraid to pumped up or empowered. ... We denied them the vision of tomorrow."
The FBI's Hostage Rescue Team was headed by Dick Rogers, who developed rules of engagement at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. That 11-day standoff in 1992 followed a gunfight in which a federal marshal and the 14-year-old son of separatist Randy Weaver were killed. Mr. Weaver's wife was shot by an FBI sniper while holding her baby and standing in the doorway of her home during the standoff.
Mr. Rogers has left the FBI and could not be reached for comment. As the standoff dragged on, he was ready to force a showdown with Mr. Koresh. "Being nice to him was playing right into his hands," Mr. Rogers has said.
As the days dragged into weeks, the FBI cut off the electricity, used "flash bang" devices to set off loud but harmless explosions, blared music and recordings of the sounds of rabbits being slaughtered into the compound, and directed blinding spotlights at the building during the night.
The armored vehicles, which were disarmed, were driven around the site at all hours to keep the sect members off guard.
Mr. Rogers and negotiators were often at odds during the standoff. Mr. Van Zandt, like other negotiators, said both Waco and Ruby Ridge "put negotiators in conflict with tactical teams... in both cases tactical teams won out and they ended in a way government wished they wouldn't."
Mr. Rogers endorsed using tear gas to end the standoff.
He told Justice Department interviewers in 1993: "I have never commented to any investigators concerning negotiations because I don't view it as having a lot to do with the outcome at Waco. I think given enough time, any negotiator could get them out if there was no suicide, but what is enough time?"
Beginning of the end
The tear gas proposal went to Attorney General Janet Reno on April 12 although some outside experts and FBI agents worried that the sect might commit mass suicide. Concerned about the children because of sex abuse allegations against Mr. Koresh, Ms. Reno approved the plan on April 17 after several days of debate.
Mr. Van Zandt said FBI tactics used against the Branch Davidians had only brought the group closer together and limited the possibility of surrender. "Koresh was the core of a bomb," he said.
Although Mr. Koresh's mother, Bonnie Haldeman, said her son "never, never" believed in suicide, she acknowledged that "on a human level it would have been very hard for him" to surrender.
Beginning at 6 a.m. on April 19, loudspeakers ordered sect members to walk out and surrender. Armored vehicles began to ram the building, punching holes into the structure and inserting tear gas.
Bugging devices secretly inserted into the walls of the compound recorded Branch Davidians after the attack began and before the fire saying things such as, "Have you poured it yet?" and "David said we have to get the fuel on" and, the last statement recorded,"Let's keep that fire going."
Mr. Koresh chose suicide by fire rather than surrender. His prophecy of a final battle against the government was self-fulfilling.
"The Davidians started the fires," said Mr. Van Zandt. "The only question is, did the government put them in a position to facilitate that, and the answer is probably yes."
That lesson is not lost on Sheriff Brownlowe, still patiently awaiting Mr. Gray's surrender. The former member of an anti-government militia is wanted on felony charges after biting a state trooper and trying to grab his gun during a traffic stop. He now faces weapons charges, too.
The family has a well, but no running water. They have a small generator for limited power, but the electricity was cut off long ago.
"At some point in time that's got to get old," said Sheriff Brownlowe. "They're prisoners on their own property."
It may not be too late for Mr. Gray and his family, but the Branch Davidians are a dying religious sect.
Forensics specialists could never determine how many died from gunshot wounds inflicted by the Branch Davidians or from the roaring inferno. Some burned bodies were fused together and specialists could not differentiate between them. But the Branch Davidians say 74 died in the fire, including more than 20 children. And two unborn children are believed to have died.
"All these faces of Waco are like ghosts sliding past you one at a time," said Mr. Van Zandt. "You have to say, 'Was it foolhardy or was it not? Did you die for a good cause or die uselessly?' "
E-mail dhiott@dallasnews.com
Wow how?
It's a walled fortified house where people that are up to no good hang out, like the Kennedys.
Come on. Look, I am not Koresh fan, and I think it was mas suicide. But, are you really telling me that if you were in charge you would think it was safer to attack a heavily armed compound then it would be to pull over a car on the road as Koresh went to town, even it Koresh had 4 armend men with him? Let's face it. Yes, Koresh was evil. However, had the ATF not decided to make a big show for teh media they could have taken Koresh off the compound.
Koresh had the last laugh. The DEMONRATS have been denied their vision of Tomorrow.
They threw in the Tanks and 'liquidated' [their word] the situation, in part because it was distracting from the push for Hilarycare.
The sword NEVER departed that Admin...,er, REGIME.
And at the next General Election, the American People took back the Congress...BOTH Houses.
The Democrats haven't won a National Election since!
Did you know him, or are you forming a "defense" from just what you have read?
The war for independence - the American Revolution - was strongly supported from the pulpit, by those Jesus loving cultists Christians.
Raising armies that eventually defeated the Ottoman muslim hordes from overrunning Europe and eliminating Christianity in particular was clearly the work of Christian cult warriors.
It was no doubt the work of Jesus loving Christian cultists who demanded the Second Amendment be made part of the Constitution, less the coup overthrowing the Confederation would have failed.
Word has it that as written, thirty-four States did not ratify ( make legal ) the Constitution, as required by law.
The Second Amendment was born of a historical fear against a deceitful, degenerate, diabolical, manipulative, oligarchical, atheist government, such as exist now. It was believed that an armed Citizenry could more easily throw off a lawfully corrupt government, which could surface through the largess of a less than diligent populace. Americans have been repeatedly forced to rise against evil within our borders which permeate through every gutter board room decision to every alley and sewer of Congress. The monster is given new life through violations of the seven cardinal sins:
Pride;
Envy;
Wrath;
Sloth;
Greed;
Gluttony, and
Lust.
If its' ok to label Christians a cult, than we should be required to recognize and eliminate the fiction of a fiduciary standing enjoyed by the privately owned Federal Reserve System - the greatest fraud in the history of mankind.
Which would you prefer : the 'cult' of Christianity existing within the States at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, or the cult of criminality, which now controls the lawmaking and law enforcement practices within the united States of America - in which the authority of the Citizens and the States has been incrementally stripped away by Machiavellian contrived court decisions, and so-called 'Executive Orders', having the sole purpose of birthing the Rosemary baby of centrally controlled governance. Mission accomplished. They have, by default, contravened the Constitutional legal standing of both the Citizen and the State within our Republic. FreeRepublic.com notwithstanding.
A General Question -
What in hell do generation after generation of American Citizens give their limb and life to sustain? The Constitution, or the power of one branch of the central government to do anything it damn well pleases to do....including, but not limited to, ordering Americans to die.
Where is our place at the table?
Do we even have a seat anymore, or have we been relegated to the status of an indentured slave?
The boss man allows every religious cult member in the united States of America to keep one-half of the labor income received, and solely decides the circumstances under which it will condone the existence of a house of worship, and when it chooses to padlock the same. Did you say First Amendment? Didn't the last president tell us the Constitution has outlived its' use? Hasn't every president since Wilson said the same, by their actions?
Death and taxes. Joe Black, where are you when we need you!
Thanks so much for implying that I'm a liar, when you don't even know me.
Carolyn
Here's where I disagree. I don't think the JBT want to kill anybody.
I think they were assuming that Koresh would either refuse to answer the front door, or slam it in the face of the verloren hoop, providing justification under "knock and announce" rules for the dynamic entry by the assault team at the rear of the building.
Because Koresh was an "evil cult leader" who kept all the weapons "under his personal control", his presence at the front door would mean the assault team would easily take control of the building, and the "woulda, shoulda, coulda" result would be: no fatalities, mucho pictures of "cultists" led away in manacles, and large amounts of "illegal weapons" seized (which given the success of the raid, wouldn't be examined too closely.
Of course with no co-ordination between the front door team, the rear assault team, the "animal control" team, and the airborne "fire suppression" team, when any one of them opened fire, the other three immediately assumed that they were under attack, and apocalypse.
You plan to take control of a small community of Americans by force of arms. You declare this community is a sexually degenerate cult dealing in drugs, illegal weapons, and sexually having their way with the young children therein. You also believe every man woman and child in this community is armed and dangerous ( you did purposely and intentionally bring about the death of every human being in the residence by shooting at them, when they were trying to escape the inferno within their residence - forcing them to experience the horror of a death by fire ).
To take this community of despicable degenerate cultist outlaws you have assembled a highly trained gang of professional killers; arming them with sufficient firepower to overcome any likely lethal response.
You write that you do not agree with me when I write, "....this was a highly planned media event staged to impress Congress to keep the ATF alive.....standing proudly atop a hill of dead children, women and male American Citizens.".
Please understand my observation is based upon the fact that the only civilian team invited to record this exercise in carnage was the television and print media people.
Not one, I repeat, NOT ONE paramedic unit was requested to be on scene.
Dead men tell no tales.
Inasmuch as there has been a shredding, bulldozing and an official re-write of all the existing evidence, we are left to speculate the actual intentions the rapist and his murdering intimidators attached to the 'Justice' Department.
Because their well planned offensive purposely excluded medical backup, I can, in good conscience, assert this was a planned take-no-prisoners massacre of Christian Americans from the get-go.
By the way, what is or who is 'JBT'?
Most of this is one sided propaganda from the viewpoint of a bunch of criminals who should be in jail now for their crimes.
Lest we forget, it started when a bunch of macho pigs wanting a "show" to get more funding attcked the BD compound and got some of their folks shot up. It then went from bad to worse until the fibbies gassed and burnt the children to save them.
Waco was an appalling abuse of police powers. Every one of the scum who perpetrated it should be enjoying leife sentences or the comforts of death row for their murders.
You misunderstand me. Of course it was a highly planned nmedia event to garner publicity for the BATF. I just dispute your position that the massacre was preplanned. A mound of dead bodies is BAD publicity that would impress only a few members of Congress.
What the BATF wanted was film of them sweeping in, and efficiently taking control of the "evil cult" - without fatalities, to demonstrate to Congress why they should keep paying the big bucks.
Lack of medical backup can be explained on the same reasoning as why none of the agents at the front door had a copy of the warrant. Neither casualties or Koresh accepting service of the warrant were in the BATF scenario script.
And JBT=JackBootedThugs
Please excuse me for being repetitive, but I get hung up on how anyone could decide the ATF goons wanted to rescue the sexually abused children ( the ATF's story ) by burning them to death.
"[ The ATF and FBI ] did purposely and intentionally bring about the death of every human being in the residence by shooting at them, when they were trying to escape the inferno within their residence - forcing them to experience the horror of a death by fire.
Had the ATF and FBI allowed the Davidians to run from the burning house I would be in agreement with you. They did not, and for that reason coupled with the initial and intentional lack of medial assistance, I must conclude the intent was to make a killing field of Mount Carmel.
You mean "she."
Ann Richards, a Democrat, was governor of Texas in 1993.
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