Flight attendants scrap deal with American

CNN ^ | 041903 | AP

[Archangelsk]

FORT WORTH, Texas (CNN) -- Outraged by news that troubled American Airlines had planned to give its executives bonuses, flight attendants rescinded their approval of wage cuts and plan to vote again, a union official said late Friday.

No date for the new vote was set. Wednesday, the flight attendants agreed to more than $10 billion in wage concessions over six years. The airline had said it would file for bankruptcy protection if the union did not approve the cuts.

[thatsnotnice]

Looking at it from another perspective, what they are really doing is asking the pilots and flight attendants to pay for their protected retirements and golden parachutes.

Which is interesting because a previous article compared the executive pension-protection deal as being similar to the one the pilots have... The unions haven't been too outraged at that. At least not from what I've heard.

[Bogey78O]

That's precisely what it was. The executives just needed a sucker to pay the tab.

[Bogey78O]

Somehow I'm thinking of Dana Carvey's character in "Moving" with Richard Pryor. However at the end Carvey demands a raise.

[Bogey78O]

'Sure they do, again they're providing tens of thousands of jobs. '

They're managing a company that is publicly owned by the shareholders. They are employees.

They give nothing except guidance.

[MissBaby]

They run a company that is responsible for tens of thousands of jobs. I think that makes them better than the rank and file. If they weren't, then everyone would be running an airline company.

Wrong! The comparison is not one between the present managment team running the company and the rank and file doing it. The comparison is between the present management team and one more qualified or able to do a better job.

Management does not compete for their jobs with the rank and file - that is a model of totalitarianism. They compete with others that are also qualified to do the job better and, when necessary, at a lower cost. That is called free competition. What you have suggested in reply to the other post, at least on this point, is utter nonsense.

[jammer]

Thanks for nailing the big problem. I'm surprised that it took 28 previous posts for someone to get to that.

[CurlyDave]

Why not fire these incompetent AA managers and hire some competent ones from money making airlines?

Would you personally change jobs from a successful company to one about to go bankrupt?

Sounds like a wonderful career path to me--if AA wants new management, they are going to have to offer guaranteed incentives. Sounds a lot like what they did with their existing management.

I am not as certain as you that the existing management is incompetent. All of the major airlines are in trouble. Before it happened 9/11 was an unforseeable event. If the CIA and the FBI can't see this coming I don't think anyone should hold the airlines accountable for "mismanagement".

I have never flown Jetblue, but I fly ~40 times a year on Southwest. Their business mode works well for short flights, but I would never take a long flight on Southwest. Too many stops. Plus they only fly 727s. The model doesn't work with a mixed fleet. The "open seating" concept applied to a 747 would lead to 45 minutes of confusion at the beginning of each flight.

[Archangelsk]

They run a company that is responsible for tens of thousands of jobs. I think that makes them better than the rank and file. If they weren't, then everyone would be running an airline company.

Whoa, hoss, let's step down off that high horse for a moment and consider those words. Those of us in the flying business have spent thousands of hours and thousands of dollars honing our skills. As a pilot, I'm subjected to 6-month recurrent training, LOFT, CRM, bi-annual flight reviews, medicals and a host of other probes that could end my career on the spot if I failed. Dispatchers, A&Ps, flight attendants, gate agents, baggage handlers and other support and line personnel are part of an integrated team of aviation professionals who love their jobs and are expected to perform to the operational specifications that demand the highest of quality. On the other hand, most senior executives are bean counters who make specious, unilateral, destructive decisions and then laud and reward themselves with outrageous bonuses.

Calling them better is an insult to me and everyone else who has ever been part of the working, and money-making, part of the industry.

[cynicom]

Antagonism...Most of my time was with the Federal government, some military and some with an aircraft manufacturer.

Many years ago, when Eastern and Pan American went under, it was apparent that the majors were in trouble.

There is a reason that Southwest has always made money. That reason is, MANAGEMENT, and if management takes credit for making money, then management takes credit for losing money. It is managements JOB to manage their unions. Southwest does very well and they have employees making less than those of the major carriers, they haul people, make money, if a route is a loser, away it goes.

[O6ret]

My post was not intended to champion the rank and file. Certainly there's a separate set of issues reserved just for them.

Rather, I was excoriating the "me first" executive philosophy that evidently pervades AA (and many other corporate boardrooms today). Putting one's own well-being in front of the workers--if not the company--and then calling it "management" can hardly be called "responsible".

[Archangelsk]

Plus they only fly 727s.

Small correction, 737s vice 727s.

A 727

A Southwest 737.

[Bogey78O]

The CEO trend seems to be give yourself a raise when you do something good. If you do something bad you pad your options and retirement.

Imagine how horrible the Army would be if we allowed common men to cammand the troops. That's why we have specially groomed men culled from the noblest houses to lead our troops. Imagine the bloodshed that would happen if we allowed common people who aren't of the right class to command our troops.

[cksharks]

Like A$$holes everyone has one!

[Archangelsk]

The CEO trend seems to be give yourself a raise when you do something good. If you do something bad you pad your options and retirement.

Imagine how horrible the Army would be if we allowed common men to cammand the troops. That's why we have specially groomed men culled from the noblest houses to lead our troops. Imagine the bloodshed that would happen if we allowed common people who aren't of the right class to command our troops.

I was one of those who came from a common household and led men into combat. So was Colin Powell, so is Tommy Franks (started out enlisted as I). Be careful with those sweeping statements.

[cynicom]

Common?? I take that as tongue in cheek.

[MissBaby]

After I posted to you I went back and read my post again. Realizing I was not thinking clearly at this early hour in the morning I went and got myself a first cup of coffee.

Now a little more awake and wishing you all the best!

[cynicom]

I do not drink coffee, so I have no cure when my brain refuses to engage. (that is quite often)

[Bogey78O]

oops..../sarcasm

I figured my previous posts on the subject would have made it obvious.

[bneal]

If you had been on this site since last Thursday, you would have been listening to these clueless morons ranting for some time now. They have no idea what goes into crew training and don't realize theat careers could end on a moments notice with one health checkup. Most folks work without such a threat hanging over their heads.

My wife is a FA at AA for 25 years now. She can rip an emergency exit door off and throw it a couple of rows back (required) and she is 5'2" and 100 lbs. During emergency training 2 'years ago, she ruptured the achilles tendon and her career looked doubtful for a while. Fortunatly, she made a full recovery. Her loyalty and dedication to AA has been spat upon and yes, her career may be in jeapordy.

Most of these critics probably exert themselves just by getting up off the couch to get another beer. They also forget that in an emergency, the crew is the last off the plane, even if it looks as though they may not make it. They are busy saving everyone else, including the critics, who would probably be busy wetting themselves

Once again, if their jobs are so highly paying and easy, why doesn't everyone go get one. I think we know the answer to that one.

[JmyBryan]

I agree - these execs should be tried for some sort of war-time theft. Almost treasonous to take that money and put it in their pockets. That's more reminiscent of the Soviet Union than capitalism. Makes the public even less hesitant to do any govt bail-outs.