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The laws of capital taxation
The Washington Times ^ | April 18, 2003 | Jude Wanniski

Posted on 04/18/2003 1:50:24 PM PDT by zechariah

Edited on 07/12/2004 4:02:42 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

For President Bush to succeed in getting $550 billion out of Congress for his tax-cutting growth package, he should be making better arguments for its centerpiece: ending the double-taxation of corporate dividends. If he gets only the $350 billion being offered grudgingly by the Senate, there will likely be no room at all for this desperately needed cut in the taxation of capital.


(Excerpt) Read more at washtimes.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: bushtaxcuts; judewanniski

1 posted on 04/18/2003 1:50:24 PM PDT by zechariah
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To: arete
Pass this on to the (un)usual suspects, if you don't mind.

[z]
2 posted on 04/18/2003 1:51:41 PM PDT by zechariah (The Lord is with you, Mighty Warrior!)
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To: bvw; Tauzero; Matchett-PI; Ken H; rohry; headsonpikes; RCW2001; blam; hannosh4LtGovernor; ...
Pass this on to the (un)usual suspects, if you don't mind.

Ping to the (un)usual suspects.

Richard W.

3 posted on 04/18/2003 1:57:15 PM PDT by arete (Greenspan is a ruling class elitist and closet socialist who is destroying the economy)
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To: zechariah
I like the idea of eliminating double taxation. However, I think that removing it for the individual is the wrong way to do it.

Dividends paid should be counted as a legitimate business expense for companies and thus become untaxed on that side. Individuals should then count it as income and pay taxes on it. That way it is only taxed once and money in 401Ks and IRAs will be treated the same as money outside of deferred tax accounts. Otherwise, money in IRAs and 401Ks will continue to be double taxed.

4 posted on 04/18/2003 2:05:07 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Paranoia is when you realize that tin foil hats just focus the mind control beams.)
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To: zechariah
When capital is taxed less, it becomes more plentiful relative to labor. It is only when labor is scarce relative to capital that it can demand and get higher wages, because the capital is there to make labor more productive.

Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights.

~ Abraham Lincoln


5 posted on 04/18/2003 2:08:18 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: KarlInOhio
Dividends paid should be counted as a legitimate business expense for companies and thus become untaxed on that side. Individuals should then count it as income and pay taxes on it.

Could you explain in greater detail why you would prefer it this way?

[z]
6 posted on 04/18/2003 2:10:45 PM PDT by zechariah (The Lord is with you, Mighty Warrior!)
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To: arete
Greenspan has the idea that capital formation is created with the printing press and bankers pen on the credit slip. We are in the process of limiting capital formation by penalizing savers with the lowest interest rates in six decades.

Now we wonder why our savings rate is the lowest in the developed world. Until we get an economist that understands the basics of capital formation to head up the Federal Reserve, the country is going to suffer. For that matter, until we shed the Federal Reserve, the country will suffer.

7 posted on 04/18/2003 2:13:29 PM PDT by meenie
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To: Willie Green
I don't get the point of your post.

[z]
8 posted on 04/18/2003 2:14:22 PM PDT by zechariah (The Lord is with you, Mighty Warrior!)
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To: zechariah
The main reason is that right now the company pays taxes on earnings and then the individual pays again on the dividend. If they have it in an IRA they pay on withdrawal. If they have it outside and IRA, they pay now. That means taxes are paid twice on corporate profits no matter how the taxpayer holds the stock.

If dividends are not taxable for the individual, the dividend will be taxed once at the corporate level if the stockis held outside an IRA. If it is held in an IRA it will be taxed at the corporate level and again on withdrawal from the IRA.

If my suggestion is done, the part of the profits distributed are not taxable at the corporate level. They are taxed immediately for a person who holds the stock outside an IRA, and upon withdrawal for a person who holds it inside an IRA.

Right now it is taxed twice (bad). If my suggestion is put into place it will be taxed once for everyone, regardless of the type of account it is held in (better). If the President's plan is put into place, it will be taxed once if held outside an IRA, twice if held inside an IRA (better than now, but not as good as my plan).

I also like the putting borrowed money/interest paid (deductible) on the same tax status as invested money/dividend paid.

Now, whether retained corporate profits should no longer be taxed is a point which can be argued.

(Whenever I said IRA read it as IRA,401k,403b,SEP,etc.)

9 posted on 04/18/2003 2:26:30 PM PDT by KarlInOhio (Paranoia is when you realize that tin foil hats just focus the mind control beams.)
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To: meenie
Ludwig von Mises Institute

Richard W.

10 posted on 04/18/2003 2:53:54 PM PDT by arete (Greenspan is a ruling class elitist and closet socialist who is destroying the economy)
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To: KarlInOhio
If the President's plan is put into place, it will be taxed once if held outside an IRA, twice if held inside an IRA (better than now, but not as good as my plan).

OK, I see what you are saying. I guess at that point you have to ask yourself if the advantages of an IRA/401k (eg. immediate tax break, employer matching, etc.) outweigh the disadvantge of a greater tax burden in the future.

Perhaps IRAs and 401ks will become so unpopular that they'll change the rules to make them attractive again.

[z]
11 posted on 04/18/2003 2:54:42 PM PDT by zechariah (The Lord is with you, Mighty Warrior!)
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To: zechariah

Far different is the nature of work that is hired out to others and expended on the property of others. To this indeed especially applies what Leo XIII says is "incontestible," namely, that "the wealth of nations originates from no other source than from the labor of workers..."

This order consists in this: that each thing have its proper owner. Hence it follows that unless a man is expending labor on his own property, the labor of one person and the property of another must be associated, for neither can produce anything without the other. Leo XIII certainly had this in mind when he wrote: "Neither capital can do without labor, nor labor without capital." Wherefore it is wholly false to ascribe to property alone or to labor alone whatever has been obtained through the combined effort of both, and it is wholly unjust for either, denying the efficacy of the other, to arrogate to itself whatever has been produced.

~His Holiness Pope Pius XI,
Quadragesimo Anno - Reconstruction of the Social Order
May 15, 1931


12 posted on 04/18/2003 3:01:04 PM PDT by Willie Green (Go Pat Go!!!)
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To: Willie Green
If capital is the fruit of labor, then taxing capital twice is the same as taxing labor twice.

Agreed, capital is the fruit of labor.

13 posted on 04/18/2003 3:15:56 PM PDT by Chairman Fred (@mousiedung.commie)
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To: zechariah
Good God - here we go again.

Folks picking on Bush because he isn't standing up for something he obviously places high priority on.

When are they going to learn. Bush sets forth what the rules are, what matters, then he waits for the opposition to move, and uses their momentum to pin them to the mat.

They keep lunging at him, everytime. So long as they keep hating Bush, he will keep making fools of them.

14 posted on 04/18/2003 3:26:26 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: ThePythonicCow
When are they going to learn. Bush sets forth what the rules are, what matters, then he waits for the opposition to move, and uses their momentum to pin them to the mat.

Well, I don't claim to be a politician or know anything about political strategy, but Bush's (apparent) lack of forward momentum vis-a-vis the economy worries me. I don't want another Democrat in office come Jan 2005.

They keep lunging at him, everytime. So long as they keep hating Bush, he will keep making fools of them.

I don't hate Bush, and I don't think Jude Wanniski hates Bush either. In fact, I'm pretty sure that if W could pull of a major tax-cut coup, Wanniski would sing W's praises to high heaven.

I'm pulling for Bush, but one bitten twice shy, you know?

[z]
15 posted on 04/18/2003 3:49:33 PM PDT by zechariah (The Lord is with you, Mighty Warrior!)
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To: Willie Green
Oh, yeah. The Pope. I get it now.

Oh, wait. No, I still don't get it.

[z]
16 posted on 04/18/2003 3:58:02 PM PDT by zechariah (The Lord is with you, Mighty Warrior!)
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To: zechariah
Then be prepared for some more worrying. Even if he pushes most of this tax plan through, and seems like a decent chance he will, still I'm expecting the economy to suck, bigtime.

At the same time, he still wins, bigtime.

It's a DemoRat fallacy that it was the economy stupid that took down Bush Senior. Yeah, that might have been the final couple percent, but mostly, at the time (except for some, not me, who had already figured Klintoon+Hitlery for what they really were - a marriage of Al Capone and Karla Marx) Clinton seemed to many people like the better candidate, better person (yeah, I'm a slow judge of character, ...). Bush Senior seemed more like a rather boring beuracrat. Clinton seemed more charismatic, more in touch with high tech, more caring and more intelligent.

W is not of the same temperment as his Dad. He will be unstoppable in this upcoming election. Even as the economy is digging its own grave in the back fourty.

W also had the benefit of a front row seat on his dad's loss -- he will not repeat that mistake.

Anyhow, given how poorly I judged Clinton at first, you'd best not be putting much stock in my predictions.

17 posted on 04/18/2003 4:08:11 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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To: zechariah
I too doubt she hates Bush. She started out the piece like a matt-side reporter at a wrestling match noting that one wrestler didn't seem to be moving agressively enough. It's the other guy on the matt who will be doing the predictable lunging, and who will be pinned, again.

But our reporter friend Jude perhaps hasn't quite caught on to Bush's rhythm yet - the taunt, the hesitation, the kill.

18 posted on 04/18/2003 7:05:37 PM PDT by ThePythonicCow (Mooo !!!!)
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