Posted on 04/17/2003 7:27:08 PM PDT by kristinn
Speaking of the anti-war protestors, have you paid any attention to the types of arguements they give?
Let see... Bush is a "ultranationalist tyrannical" dictator who is an "illegitmate leader" and "war criminal" who's been "waging an unprovoked attack on a soviegn nation", trying to "target woman and children", and "overthrow the consitution.". Oh, and let's not forget he's "suspending civil liberties", by having Ashcroft "suspend Haebus Corpus" and "jailing and opressing innocent people" and "destroying freedom of speech" (critizing anti-war protests being an effort to "destroy" their freedom, according to protestors).
Oh, and let's not forget the "real" reasons for the war. Bush "claims" about freeing the Iraqi people from slavery, but we all Bush is the one who has a "facsist regime" and therefore the "true" motiviation is because a bunch of "greedy corporations and big buisness" are "imperialists" who want to "occupy" Iraq and "destroy their way of life and ancient traditions" so they can "plunder their natural resources and get big money from war profits".
Also, Saddam has done nothing wrong. It's "yankee propagnda" All those reports of torture of the Kurds and other minorities were made up by the "tyrant" Bush.
Hmmmm....seems I've heard this before somewhere.
Would Shuckmaster agree with Mexico, France, and other America-haters that Bush is a blood-thristy maniac leadering an evil "yankee war", or would he agree with George W. that we should proudly cheer on the U.S. troops on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln who liberated Iraq?
Shucky is about as pro-America as you are a "Republican capitalist".
That he did. But he also blamed one of the major reasons for the war - prior events on September 11th and Saddam's continued building of WMD's - on George Bush Sr.
"All these deaths of U.S. citizens --the death of EVERY U.S. citizen killed by Arab terror in the United States, can be laid directly at the feet of George Bush I." - WhiskeyPapa, 11/15/02
SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/786927/posts?q=1&&page=401#448
In addition, he constantly adhered to and espoused a position that the credit for the war belongs not to Bush but to Rumsfeld, Powell, Cheney et al.
"I do firmly believe that Bush Jr. is nothing but a figurehead. Bush Sr. is running things; he and Cheney and Rumsfeld. I mean, really listen to the president. He sounds like an idiot." - WhiskeyPapa, 4/7/03
SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/backroom/886354/posts?page=119#137
Elsewhere he has referred to Bush as a "clown," "idiot," and "retard." So in other words, WhiskeyPapa did indeed support the war but with several qualifications, among them blaming its root causes on a Republican president and denying its credit to the current president for whatever political reasons he may have. Such a position is in fact consistent with most of the liberal Democrats in congress who proclaim their support for the war yet constantly trash Bush.
Incidentially, this is kind of an odd position for a "marxist/socialist/leftist/statinist" to take
And Wlat's an odd fellow. So what's your point?
considering 99.99% of the people who geninuely fit that label despise not only war with Iraq, but war on terrorism in general.
That may be so with many of them, but not all. You need to look no further than Congress if you doubt me, which is full of left wing Democrats who say they are "pro-war" yet constantly trash Bush.
Speaking of the anti-war protestors, have you paid any attention to the types of arguements they give? Let see... Bush is a "ultranationalist tyrannical" dictator who is an "illegitmate leader" and "war criminal" who's been "waging an unprovoked attack on a soviegn nation", trying to "target woman and children", and "overthrow the consitution.". Oh, and let's not forget he's "suspending civil liberties", by having Ashcroft "suspend Haebus Corpus" and "jailing and opressing innocent people" and "destroying freedom of speech" (critizing anti-war protests being an effort to "destroy" their freedom, according to protestors).
So what's your point? The fact that a bunch of goofy war protesters make illegitimate use of the grievances they purport in no way means that those grievances could not happen elsewhere in other situations or at other times.
But since you are interested in comparisons, why don't you take a look at how another wartime congressman behaved when America was being attacked by another militarist dictator. There's a much stronger association between that individual's behavior then and the behavior now of, say, a Jim McDermott than there has ever been between the confederates and the anti-war hippie crowd.
Would Shuckmaster agree with Mexico, France, and other America-haters that Bush is a blood-thristy maniac leadering an evil "yankee war", or would he agree with George W. that we should proudly cheer on the U.S. troops on the U.S.S. Abraham Lincoln who liberated Iraq?
I cannot speak for him personally, but nothing prevents you from asking him.
Shucky is about as pro-America as you are a "Republican capitalist".
If that indeed holds true, then his patriotism must be quite strong.
Bad GOP, no donut.
Walt
What's the matter is that you are attacking me and didn't even have the courtesy to ping me.
I guess you have gotten tired of me shoiwing you for the fool and poltroon you so clearly are.
George Bush Jr. sounds like a retard to me. Listen to his sentence structure and his word choice. Sophomoric. You don't think so, fine.
I think he is heavily coached by 41. You don't think so, fine.
It's no coincidence that Saddam Hussein had a mural of 41 placed on the floor of a lobby, I believe in a hotel, where people could walk on it. It's clear in the record that we helped Saddam quite a bit in the war with Iran. He was a de facto ally. He thought he had a green light from the US when he invaded Kuwait. He struck at us as often as he could from 1991-2002. And that was because we humilitated him on Desert Storm. In 1990, 41 stumbled into a war easily averted. These facts are not in dispute.
But some people have short memories,and hate to have their rose colored glasses stripped away.
41 will go down in history as one of the least effective presidents of the last century. Remember the economy back in the early '90's? Why did Bush lose the election? It's the economy, stupid. It's the vision thing.
There are a lot of people on FR who go "whoo hooo, whoo hooo, George Bush, George Bush!"
His --forte-- was foreign policy. But he stumbled into a major war.
History already shows that the guy was a very poor president.
And you know what he did that should torque all Republicans - the WORST thing that he did? He let Bill Clinton into the White House. Inexcusable, right?
Walt
I only stated the facts, Walt, after another poster brought them into question in a post to me. If you dispute any of those facts, make your case.
Walt
"George Bush Jr. sounds like a retard to me. Listen to his sentence structure and his word choice. Sophomoric. You don't think so, fine." - WhiskeyPapa, 5/4/03
SOURCE: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/895504/posts?page=245#245
If the basis of the award is running in circles and screaming and shouting that the we couldn't win, I don't qualify. If the basis is that the war was unnecessary, I don't qualify. We definitely needed to do the war, if only to let those sorry miltant Arab cretins know that we would kick their butts up and down with extreme prejudice.
That has always been the American Way of War since the War of the Rebellion and there is no reason to stop it now.
Walt
But if the basis of the award is a blame-america-firster attitude along the lines of "All these deaths of U.S. citizens --the death of EVERY U.S. citizen killed by Arab terror in the United States, can be laid directly at the feet of George Bush I" you do indeed qualify.
Who was in charge?
Walt
Seconded. Walt complains about W's grammar? The same guy that has a tagline of 'Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!'?
That's Shakespeare.
You didn't know that?
| The Life of King Henry the Fifth |
| Shakespeare homepage | Henry V | Act 3, Scene 1 Previous scene | Next scene |
Alarum. Enter KING HENRY, EXETER, BEDFORD, GLOUCESTER, and Soldiers, with scaling-laddersKING HENRY V
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more;
Or close the wall up with our English dead.
In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
As modest stillness and humility:
But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
Then imitate the action of the tiger;
Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood,
Disguise fair nature with hard-favour'd rage;
Then lend the eye a terrible aspect;
Let pry through the portage of the head
Like the brass cannon; let the brow o'erwhelm it
As fearfully as doth a galled rock
O'erhang and jutty his confounded base,
Swill'd with the wild and wasteful ocean.
Now set the teeth and stretch the nostril wide,
Hold hard the breath and bend up every spirit
To his full height. On, on, you noblest English.
Whose blood is fet from fathers of war-proof!
Fathers that, like so many Alexanders,
Have in these parts from morn till even fought
And sheathed their swords for lack of argument:
Dishonour not your mothers; now attest
That those whom you call'd fathers did beget you.
Be copy now to men of grosser blood,
And teach them how to war. And you, good yeoman,
Whose limbs were made in England, show us here
The mettle of your pasture; let us swear
That you are worth your breeding; which I doubt not;
For there is none of you so mean and base,
That hath not noble lustre in your eyes.
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
Exeunt. Alarum, and chambers go off
| Shakespeare homepage | Henry V | Act 3, Scene 1 Previous scene | Next scene |
Walt
If Bush is not responsible for the bad things on his watch, he cannot take responsibility for the good things.
You sound like an Arab. They always eschew personal responsibilty; that is why we kick their ass.
Walt
So was FDR responsible for Hitler since Hitler "happened" on his watch? What about Abe Lincoln? Was he responsible for the war and all those war crimes against civilians since they happened on his watch? Answer me those questions and then we will decide who is behaving like an Arab.
FRee dixie,sw
illbay is/was one of the MAIN south-HATERS/BIGOTS on FR.
FRee dixie,sw
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