Catholic Church asks Tom Daschle to stop calling himself a Catholic

Weekly Standard (via Matt Drudge) ^ | April 17, 2003 | SB00

[Romulus]

When you say that doctrine "evolves" you are right only in the literal sense that truths latent in the original deposit of faith become explicit. But it is incorrect if you intend "evolution" to mean linear change or progress.

Changes in ritual and discipline surely have altered the "look and feel" of the institutional Church, but these superficial adaptations have no bearing on the ecclesial life-in-Christ that the Church has always offered. To read Augustine or the canon of Hipolytus or even the Didache is to see vivid accounts of substantially the same liturgies the Catholics offer today. The ancient (and even mediaeval) Christians, who were quite familiar with the concept of multiple Western rites, would have no difficulty whatever in perceiving an orthodox Novus Ordo (English) Mass as thoroughly Catholic.

As you say, "it's not worth splitting hairs over." Soothly!

[Valin]

Russ Lopez, a spokesman for Davis, responded with the hilarious and deeply revealing complaint that Bishop Weigand was "telling the faithful how to practice their faith."

I know this may sound stupid but isn't "telling the faithful how to practice their faith." part of a bishops job?

[.45MAN]

((((PING))))

[Las Vegas Dave]

Ping....

A few months ago the local priest at my wife's local parish stated, (and I quote),
"If catholics voted by the teachings of the church, there would be no abortion!"

(I have said the same thing to my wife during the x-42 years.)

[xsmommy]

amazing to me when non_Catholics feel compelled to opine on something that they don't know a thing about. What in the world would a non-catholic know about a paygrade and its attendant responsibilities in the Catholic church???

[Hacksaw]

Just like many atheists try to lecture Christians on their proper role, many non Catholics try to do the same in regard to Catholics.

[Fiddlstix]

BTTT

[ninenot]

Leaving aside questions of selectivity...

The Bishop of a Diocese is in complete control of the adjective "Catholic" for his Diocese.

EG., in Milwaukee, a group of parents started a new, private, grade school, with a very rigorous academic curriculum and a VERY orthodox Catholic curriculum.

About 10 days after the formation was announced, the Archbishop of Milwaukee sent a letter demanding that the parents no longer use the term "Catholic" in the literature.
We got around that by using the term 'based in Catholicism.'

It is not a matter of "opinion." It is a matter of Canon Law, and this particular exercise of same goes directly to the "justice" issue.

[ninenot]

He has standing to give his opinion. That's it.

Wrong legal system. Canon Law, unlike US law, is based on the old Roman legal system, not 'common law/Blackstone.'

[ninenot]

as long as several thousand or million other Catholics who publically advocated policies The Church thought beyond the pale were excommunicated as well.

Torie, the Church does NOT "excommunicate" people--they excommunicate themselves. In certain rare cases the Church follows up with a formal document re-affirming same.

Here's a homely analogy: one of your children calls the other a bad name, knowing that such behavior is sufficient grounds for punishment. You impose the punishment. But the child "punished himself" by the action in the first place.

Not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.

[Terriergal]

Oh that's polka music? I have heard people say it before and knew it was a song, but not the genre! lol

Yeah... Tommy would be better off identifying with the religion of secular humanism (secularists might think that is an oxymoron...)

:-)

[Conservative Iowan]

"There is no difference between Middle Age Catholics and modern age Islam."

And:

"It's not an opinion.It is a fact. Prove me wrong."

No, you made the claim, YOU prove your claim. To make the assertion that it is not opinion, but fact, is not proof. The burden of proof is on you. Otherwise, all you are doing is spouting tired anti-Catholic ideas.

[RooRoobird14]

TRUE catholics will approve heartily. the catholics in name only, of which Daschle is one, of course, they will disapprove.

Amen to that, xsmommy. Committed, praticing Catholics will be overjoyed by this. Cradle "Catholics" who go to mass twice a year and live their lives like Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon will be outraged by this.

[xsmommy]

well as our priest said, if you don't agree with Catholic doctrine, you AREN'T Catholic. Therefore, NO catholics will be upset by this....

[Polycarp]

Copyright 2003 Bulletin Broadfaxing Network, Inc.
The Bulletin's Frontrunner

April 18, 2003 Friday

SECTION: US Senate

LENGTH: 704 words

HEADLINE: SD: Home Diocese Asks Daschle Not To Refer To Himself As A Catholic.

BODY:
J. Bottum, Books & Arts editor of the Weekly Standard, writes in a column in the Weekly Standard (4/17), "Tom Daschle may no longer call himself a Catholic. The Senate minority leader and the highest ranking Democrat in Washington has been sent a letter by his home diocese of Sioux Falls, sources in South Dakota have told The Weekly Standard, directing him to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to his standing as a member of the Catholic Church. This isn't exactly excommunication -- which is unnecessary, in any case, since Daschle made himself ineligible for communion almost 20 years ago with his divorce and remarriage to a Washington lobbyist. The directive from Sioux Falls' Bishop Robert Carlson is rather something less than excommunication -- and, at the same time, something more: a declaration that Tom Daschle's religious identification constitutes, in technical Catholic vocabulary, a grave public scandal." Bottum adds, "Daschle's consistent political opposition to Catholic teachings on moral issues -- abortion, in particular -- has made him such a problem for ordinary churchgoers that the Church must deny him the use of the word 'Catholic.'" Bottum adds, "There's quite a list of pro-abortion Catholics in Washington -- beginning with Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic minority leader in the House -- who could use similar instruction in 'the duty to be morally coherent.' Just in the Senate, there's Biden, Collins, Daschle, Dodd, Harkin, Kennedy, Kerry, Landrieu, Leahy, Mikulski, Murray, Reed, and more. But at least Tom Daschle has now been forced by Bishop Carlson to assume some responsibility for moral coherence -- even if it is, unfortunately, a coherence achieved in the wrong direction." Bottum concludes, "The diocese in Sioux Falls would not say what brought the issue of Tom Daschle's Catholicism to a head at this moment, although one South Dakotan suggested it may have to do with Daschle's crossing of yet another line recently when he began direct fund-raising for NARAL. Senator Daschle's office has not yet responded to a request for comment. It's a serious thing when a bishop breaks a pastoral relation, no matter how tenuous that relation may have grown. But Bishop Carlson is right that the time has come to banish Cuomoism from American politics. This isn't a matter of favoring Republicans or Democrats. Regardless of their party, public figures who aren't going to oppose abortion shouldn't call themselves Catholic anymore."

Bishop, Daschle Downplay Dispute.

The Sioux Falls Argus Leader (4/18, Kranz) reports, "Bishop Robert Carlson and Sen. Tom Daschle say there are issues on which they do not agree, but neither will acknowledge a claim in a national publication that Carlson has told Daschle he can no longer call himself Catholic. The Weekly Standard, a conservative Washington publication, reported in an opinion article Thursday that Carlson, bishop of the Sioux Falls Catholic Diocese, wrote the Senate minority leader a letter saying he may no longer identify himself as a member of the religion. The article says Daschle was told to remove from his congressional biography and campaign documents all references to being a member of the Catholic Church." The Argus Leader adds, "Carlson responded to the article in a prepared statement, saying, 'I would never break off dialogue or a pastoral relationship with anyone.' Daschle, who was in Sioux Falls for an annual technology forum he sponsors, would not talk to reporters about the article. But he did issue a statement making his intentions clear. 'I have been a Catholic all my life, and I will remain one,' Daschle said. 'Every American's religious convictions are deeply personal, and I am not going to participate in a debate that is intended to politicize anyone's religious beliefs, especially during Holy Week.'" The Argus Leader notes, "Carlson's statement acknowledged that much of the men's discussion has focused on Daschle's position on abortion, but there also have been local, state and national issues on the agenda. ... Daschle says he has the benefit of Carlson's guidance on many public and private issues, and that relationship will continue."

LOAD-DATE: April 18, 2003

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The Associated Press State & Local Wire

The materials in the AP file were compiled by The Associated Press. These materials may not be republished without the express written consent of The Associated Press.

April 18, 2003, Friday, BC cycle

2:35 AM Eastern Time

SECTION: State and Regional

LENGTH: 588 words

HEADLINE: Bishop would "never break off a pastoral relationship with anyone"

DATELINE: SIOUX FALLS, S.D.

BODY:
Bishop Robert Carlson of the Sioux Falls Catholic Diocese says he "would never break off dialogue or a pastoral relationship with anyone."

His statement, released Thursday afternoon, was in response to a column in the conservative magazine The Weekly Standard that implies Carlson broke off pastoral relations with Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle over Daschle's position on abortion.

In a statement of his own, Daschle said his relationship with the bishop will continue.

Carlson said he has seen the article in question and agrees he and Daschle have had a number of discussions about abortion. He said he has spoken out on many issues over the years and has encouraged Daschle to reconsider his position on abortion and his support for the National Abortion Rights Action League.

"However, other than inviting people to pray for the senator's conversion, I do not believe it is appropriate for me to discuss my pastoral relationship with the senator or anyone else," Carlson said in his statement.

A spokesman for the diocese said Thursday afternoon that Carlson was busy preparing for Holy Week services and would not say anything more than what was contained in the statement.

Daschle's Washington office issued a statement late Thursday afternoon that said he will not discuss his private conversations with Carlson in the media.

"I have been a Catholic all my life, and I will remain one," Daschle said.

"I have had the benefit of Bishop Carlson's guidance on many public and private issues, and that relationship will continue," the senator said.

The Weekly Standard column, "Tom Daschle's Duty to be Morally Coherent," was written by Joseph Bottum, the publication's books and arts editor. He is a native of South Dakota and holds a Ph.D. in philosophy from Boston College, according to the magazine's Web site.

Bottum's article says sources told the magazine that Daschle was sent a letter by the Sioux Falls Diocese telling him to remove all references to his standing as a Catholic from his congressional biography and campaign documents.

Carlson's purported directive is "a declaration that Tom Daschle's religious identification constitutes, in technical Catholic vocabulary, a grave public scandal," Bottum wrote.

Asked whether Daschle received such a letter, a spokesman said the senator's statement speaks for itself.

Six years ago, Carlson criticized Daschle for trying to craft a compromise on a proposal to ban certain late-term abortions, calling it a "smoke screen to provide cover for pro-abortion senators and President Clinton," who wanted to avoid a veto confrontation.

In the end, Daschle voted for a Republican-written measure to ban so-called "partial birth" abortions.

"In 1997 our discussion was very public and was reported in the press at that time," Carlson said Thursday.

During the 1997 controversy, Daschle took the rare step of criticizing unnamed church officials in South Dakota.

"My greatest disappointment is reserved for officials in the Catholic Church, especially in my state, for whom I have the greatest respect and from whom I was given initial encouragement for my efforts," he had said in a reference to his failed compromise.

"Their harsh rhetoric and vitriolic characterization is usually more identified with the radical right than with thoughtful religious leadership."

In response, Carlson had said he made several attempts to work with Daschle on his compromise bill but never was given a chance to be a part of a meeting.

LOAD-DATE: April 18, 2003

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[syriacus]

I'm disappointed that Daschle has failed miserably at practicing his religion

An inspired post!!

[GirlShortstop]

No, you made the claim, YOU prove your claim. To make the assertion that it is not opinion, but fact, is not proof. The burden of proof is on you. Otherwise, all you are doing is spouting tired anti-Catholic ideas.

Delightful!  Way to bring home the novel idea of posting acumen!   FReegards.

[Desdemona]

Yes. That's polka and it's also on the album Frankie Yankovich's Greatest Hits.

Don't ask how I know that.

[syriacus]

This is wonderful news.

BTW Daschle's family tree shows his ancestry includes "Germans-in-Russia."

Senator Tom Daschle (D-SD), Former U.S. Senate Minority Leader. His family is from Kleinliebental [Liebental Enclave], near Odessa.

[also from that webpage ]In 1763 The Empress of Russia, Catherine the Great, introduced a manifesto opening her borders to foreign settlers. One result was an influx of emigrants from Germany.

[syriacus]

Thomas DASCHLE

* Birth: 1797 in Alsace France
* Death: BEF 1900

Marriage 1 Elisabeth ADLER b: 1802 in Fort Louis Bischweiler Alsace france

Children
1. Joseph DASCHLE b: 1822 in Kleinliebental South Russia

etc