Tank plant speeds armor to Iraq

The Cincinnati Enquirer ^ | The Associated Press

[Willie Green]

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

Tristate reacts to war

Faced with a vulnerable spot on U.S. tanks, Army engineers sketched an idea on a napkin. Seven days later, 20 custom pieces of armor were to be shipped to Iraq on Saturday to protect Abrams M1A2 tanks.

Engineers, cutters and welders at the Lima Army Tank Plant worked around the clock to fix the weak spot - exhaust and air intake vents - that led to the loss of several tanks in the first weeks of the war, said Lt. Col. Damon Walsh, plant commander.

"It's incredible," he said. "Guys in the desert are going to be that much safer because of what they do here."

The custom armor pieces are made of steel louvers that fit over the vents in the rear of the tanks, allowing air to flow while deflecting missiles or grenades, manufacturing programs manager Keith Deters said.

The assignment came too quickly to recall laid-off workers, Deters said, so he asked design and production teams to put in overtime.

"Ever since we've been working in teams, we've been able to get everybody together and say, 'Do you want the challenge?' " he said.

Meanwhile, production on normal orders kept up, Deters said. While crews in Lima began cutting and assembling the armor kits, crews in Aberdeen, Md., tested prototypes by firing rockets at them, he said.

[Willie Green]

We won't be able to respond like this if Robert Zoellick keeps exporting our manufacturing infrastructure.

[fourdeuce82d]

...crews in Aberdeen, Md., tested prototypes by firing rockets at them, he said.

some guys get the fun jobs.

[wideawake]

Uh-huh. Robert Zoellick is holding a gun to manufacturers' heads and forcing them to outsource.

OK.

[Centurion2000]

crews in Aberdeen, Md., tested prototypes by firing rockets at them, he said.

Get paid 40-50 dollars an hours shoot missiles .... man I can't think of a more fun job than that. Well, maybe ... but definately not legal nor does it pay as well.

[jbstrick]

Did the Russian Kornet missile prove very effective? Anyone?

[Publius6961]

If there were any actually fired I don't think the troops were allowed to talk about it.
I remember them being mentioned when found, but never in the context of a firefight.

[wideminded]

I have a tank-related question that maybe someone here knows the answer to.

Yesterday, on a major highway somewhere in the U.S., I saw a large number of vehicles that looked like tanks or armored personel carriers, but had large tires instead of treads. They all appeared brand new. Some looked like they carried launchers for small missiles. I have heard something about such vehicles being needed for armored mobility.

Q1. What are they? Is this the "Stryker" or is there some other similar vehicle?

Q2. How is it they are not vulnerable to having their tires shot out?

[Conspiracy Guy]

I don't know if we ever said for sure.

[Blueflag]

There have been a number of threads about combat damage sustained by the M1-A1s. (at least) Two were disabled by ATWs, likely "Kornetts" fired at close range from the rear. One shot diabled the power pack and the crew had to abandon the hull. In another televised firefight, an Abrams was repeatedly struck by RPGs until an external fire was started that the crew could not extinguish. That tank was abandoned and destroyed by US forces after being towed for a while.

So far no ATW has penetrated the armor into the crew compartment. No one inside a buttoned up Abrams has been killed. Crew members -- drivers and tank commanders have been WIA and KIA by bullets and RPGs, but they were partially exposed.

We have also had reports of 'swarms' of RPGs and similar weapons fired at the Abrams to no avail other the cosmetic/exterior damage. No Abrams has been reported lost to Iraqi tank fire (to my knowledge). The Kornett is not a silver bullet, and the Abrmas is not indestructable.

[Blueflag]

go here

http://www.lewis.army.mil/transformation/TransNews/2002_news_articles/04190201.htm

is this what you saw?

[konaice]

"Did the Russian Kornet missile prove very effective? Anyone?"

It was suspected (by battle field abandoned launcher) that the Kornet was used to disable one M1 tank north of Karbala.(Contrary to reports it was not destroyed - it has been retrieved for study, and could be re-engined and repaired).

Crew survived.

Only one tank crew has ever died in combat in an M1, and that was when the driver (with head exposed) was hit by a bullit and lost control of the tank and it went off of a bridge and landed upside down in the water. Everybody drowned. God keep them.

[RippleFire]

bump

[Blueflag]

Just for comparison, go here, click on the pics to see a Bradley M-2 up close and personal.

http://www.army.mil/cmh-pg/photos/gulf_war/ods02.htm

The M1 and the M2 are "fighting vehicles", the Stryker is not.

The Stryker armor doesn't stop much that's bigger than .50 cal -- it just lets it penetrate one side then rattle around inside for a while (to paraphrase Omar Bradley's view on thin skinned armored vehicles)

[wideminded]

Yes, they were like that or something similar. I believe that some of ones I saw may have had a camouflage paint scheme. I'm still wondering about the tires.

[Willie Green]

Robert Zoellick is holding a gun to manufacturers' heads and forcing them to outsource.

No. Robert Zoellick is an outsourcing puppet.
He holds an unconstitutional government postition that shouldn't even exist.

Export Illusions: Most International Trade Agreements are about Investment, Not Exports

Fundamentally, we believe that the U.S. government needs to devote more resources and put in place new programs to build wider expertise about China and to protect our industrial base from eroding as a result of our economic relations with China.

-- C. Richard D’Amato, chairman
U.S.-China Security Review Commission
(How to improve U.S.-China relations )

"We are infinitely better off without treaties of commerce with any nation."

--Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, 1815.

[SamAdams76]

Only the United States would be so concerned about the loss of a few tanks that they would design, fabricate and peform emergency modifications in the field while the war is still in progress.

This is a good thing!

[konaice]

"Only the United States would be so concerned about the loss of a few tanks that they would design, fabricate and peform emergency modifications in the field while the war is still in progress. "

Or, as one tank captain remarked in a Fox Interview a few days ago, this was the first time the Enemy ever survived long enough go a look at the back side of an Abrams....

[BushMeister]

I believe that one of the Abrams we lost had its ammo "cook off" after being struck, so that would possibly mean penetration of the armor, not just an engine shot. I read the account of the tank crew that had to be pulled out after impact of what was suspected to be a Kornet ATGM. The Halon fire suppression system was activated after fire swept through the turret.

I'm glad to see that we are addressing the problem of the rear or engine shots into the Abrams. Few people seem to be aware that the Iraqis managed to disable 5-6 Abrams during Desert Storm by leaving their engines off (thereby keeping them too cold to register on the thermal sights of the approaching Abrams) and shooting at the rear (into the engine grills) of our passing tanks.

If in fact the Kornet did manage to penetrate the armor of our Abrams, the ones struck were apparently M1A1-Ds (M1A1HA or "heavy armor" models with digital upgrades), and not our top-of-the-line M1A2SEPs. There are only a few hundred M1A2SEPs currently in service, and they have better armor than any other Abrams, even the M1A2. I'm not sure if they could survive a rear shot from a Kornet, but I get the feeling that we'll find out before too long.

[Calvin Locke]

some guys get the fun jobs.

I remember a WSJ piece about Aberdeen. Guess how they test boots?

Some guys went round and round and round the test track, step by step, hour after hour...

[glorgau]

Only one tank crew has ever died in combat in an M1, and that was when the driver (with head exposed) was hit by a bullit and lost control of the tank and it went off of a bridge and landed upside down in the water. Everybody drowned. God keep them.

In my unit, we just drove hatch down all the time - no exceptions. And that was back in the 80s. As a driver, I wouldn't trust my head underneath that big hydraulically, computer controlled gun loaded with 50 pounds of explosives getting ready to go bang.