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To: HenryLeeII
Okay, hotshot, let's see some of the letters between James Madison and General Washington that you claim support a prohibition of a state's right to withdraw.

That would be hard, because no one suggested during Washington's life that any state -could- withdraw.

Madison is amply on the record that unilateral state secession could only be done for intolerable abuse, and that unilateral secession is but another word for revolution.

In his letter to Daniel Webster, dated March 13, 1833, James Madison wrote:

"I return my thanks for the copy of your late very powerful speech in the Senate of the U. S. It crushes "nullification" and must hasten an abandonment of "Secession." But this dodges the blow by confounding the claim to secede at will, with the right of seceding from intolerable oppression. The former answers itself, being a violation without cause, of a faith solemnly pledged. The latter is another name only for revolution, about which there is no theoretic controversy."

The rebels made little distinction in what they were doing -- until it was time to make excuses.

Today the excuses continue.

Walt

908 posted on 05/06/2003 6:36:52 AM PDT by WhiskeyPapa (Be copy now to men of grosser blood and teach them how to war!)
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To: WhiskeyPapa
OMG!!! You state that you can support your case against secession by quoting Madison-Washington letters, then you turn around and say that no one discussed secession in their era. Do you remember this exchange from yesterday:

HenryLeeII: General Washington is not speaking out against the concept of secession.

WhiskeyPapa: He did though. [Author of the Real Lincoln…Reply No. 882]

You're getting to be like the Clinton's in the fact that you can't keep your tales straight.

And if you're going to quote Madison about the Constitution, how about something he wrote during the ratification debates which is more relevant than a letter he wrote 40+ years after the fact. The fact that you don't know that Madison's Constitution is based on the concept of dual sovereignty (Federal government has enumerated delegated powers, and the states/people retain all others)is simply mind-boggling.

912 posted on 05/06/2003 6:54:48 AM PDT by HenryLeeII
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