[rebelyell]

Where did the Constitution say there was no right to secession? Was the compact not voluntary? Per the 10th Amendment, the rights not delegated to the collective government fell back upon the states...and that included the right to withdraw from the union.

I am afraid your view of history is tainted by ignorance. You are not alone...millions of Americans have been taught a history that did not happen.

[republicanwizard]

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

I really don't see the right to leave the union here.

[republicanwizard]

Section 4 of Article 4 reads,

"Section 4. The United States shall guarantee to every state in this union a republican form of government, and shall protect each of them against invasion; and on application of the legislature, or of the executive (when the legislature cannot be convened) against domestic violence."

The two clauses were met. In essence, the states were in internal rebellion.

[Non-Sequitur]

Was the compact not voluntary?

Doesn't a state need the approval of a majority of the existing states through a vote in both houses of Congress before it can join the Union? Why shouldn't the same approval be required to leave? According to the Constitution Congress alone has the authority to admit a state, and congressional approval is needed for combining or dividing states or any change in their border. Why would removing a state from the body politic be any different?

Per the 10th Amendment, the rights not delegated to the collective government fell back upon the states...and that included the right to withdraw from the union.

Not quite. Only rights not reserved to the United State or prohibited to the states by the Constitution can be reserved to the states. Creating or changing the status of a state is clearly a right reserved to the United States. Acting in a unilateral manner where the interests of other states may be impacted is clearly a power prohibited to the states. Unilateral secession as practiced by the confederate states was illegal under the Constitution.

[republicanwizard]

The South violated everyone of these requirements:

Clause 1: No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Clause 2: No State shall, without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports, except what may be absolutely necessary for executing it's inspection Laws: and the net Produce of all Duties and Imposts, laid by any State on Imports or Exports, shall be for the Use of the Treasury of the United States; and all such Laws shall be subject to the Revision and Controul of the Congress.

Clause 3: No State shall, without the Consent of Congress, lay any Duty of Tonnage, keep Troops, or Ships of War in time of Peace, enter into any Agreement or Compact with another State, or with a foreign Power, or engage in War, unless actually invaded, or in such imminent Danger as will not admit of delay.

[republicanwizard]

Here is the authority granted to Congress:

Clause 15: To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

[WhiskeyPapa]

Where did the Constitution say there was no right to secession?

Everywhere.

"Whoever considers, in a combined and comprehensive view, the general texture of the constitution, will be satisfied that the people of the United States intended to form themselves into a nation for national purposes. They instituted, for such purposes, a national government complete in all its parts, with powers legislative, executive and judiciary, ad in all those powers extending over the whole nation."

Supreme Court Justice James Wilson, 1793

Where does the Constitution --allow-- for secession?

The Congress has the clear power to provide for the common defense and general welfare. If secession is inimical to those interests, the neccesary and proper clause empowers the Congress to act.

At least that's what Jefferson Davis thought.

Walt

[republicanwizard]

Clause 8: Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Clause 1: New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.

How much more justification did Lincoln need?

[stand watie]

TRUE!

NO state would have joined a union that they couldn't leave.

FRee dixie,sw