Author of the The Real Lincoln to speak TODAY at George Mason University, Fairfax, Virginia

[Treebeard]

I honestly don't give two sh*ts about Abraham Lincoln. I don't consider him saint or satan, more likely a political whore, not unlike many other political whores of that day and this.

As for the tagline, I do have a tendency toward irreverence and knowing it pisses you off, even in a small way, makes my day.

[Non-Sequitur]

I take second place to nobody in my respect for President Lincoln. But having said that I also realize that Lincoln was only human, with weaknesses and failings just like the rest of us. He was a man who was thrust into a situation not of his making and rose to the occasion, who followed the path he thought was right, and did what was necessary to carry those beliefs through to completion. Some of his actions I don't fully agree with. And to attribute his presence to divine intervention is not called for. IMHO, of course.

[republicanwizard]

You are not irreverant. You and your ilk are irrelevant.

[republicanwizard]

We're all human. Agreed. So was Lincoln.

However, his vision and capabilities were not ordinary.

Far more religious men than I have went even farther with the analogies to Lincoln as Savior of America.

[Corin Stormhands]

I strongly believe that Lincoln was a Heavenly Gift to this country.

I don't disagree with you there. But your comparison to Christ was a bit much.

[Non-Sequitur]

I thought that the tagline was kind of funny myself. More original than the old "Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?"

[republicanwizard]

It isn't my quote, AGAIN.

It is taken from several of the sermons of Easter Sunday, April 16, 1865.

[Valin]

How do you reconcile my statement? Simple he was a politician.
So many people either place people like Lincoln or Washington, Jefferson, FDR, etc either on a pedestal or in the 9th circle of hell. When they were just like you and me imperfect creatures doing the best they can.

[Treebeard]

Calm down, think happy, monosyllabic thoughts.

[SCDogPapa]

Thanks for your post. The following is why they don't like DiLorenzo. He tells it like it was.

Before they jump on me, these are not DiLorenzo's words. They are not MY words either.

Just a few things that tell you that Lincoln was not what people think. It's in the record. :)

Abraham Lincoln

President Abraham Lincoln - (Racist,Destroyer of the Republic and Constitution) when asked "Why not let the South go in peace?" Lincoln replied: "I can't let them go. Who would pay for the government?"

In order to coalesce the forces in the North, Lincoln had to stage an incident to inflame the populace, which he did. The firing on Sumter was by his own admission a setup for just such action. Lincoln was aware that provisioning Sumter could provoke a war.

Lincoln's letter to Gustavus Fox on 1 May, 1861, makes it clear that he was pleased by the result of the firing on Ft Sumter..." You and I both anticipated that the cause of the country would be advanced by making the attempt to provision Ft Sumter, even if it should fail; and it is no small consolation now to feel that our anticipation is justified by the result. "

Abraham Lincoln said the following on September 18, 1858 in a speech in Charleston, Illinois:

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been , in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races [applause]: that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will for ever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race."

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable a most sacred right a right, which we hope and believe is to liberate the world. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the whole people of an existing government, may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may revolutionize, and make their own, of so much territory as they inhabit." - Abraham Lincoln

"I am not in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office." - Abraham Lincoln Campaign Speech

"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery". - Abraham Lincoln First Inaugural Address

"I am a little uneasy about the abolishment of slavery in this District (of Columbia)." To Horace Greeley

"If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it". To Horace Greeley

"What then will become of my tariff?" Abraham Lincoln to Virginia compromise delegation, March 1861.

On August 14, 1862, Lincoln received a deputation of free Negroes at the White House to which he said, "But for your race there could not be war...It is better for us both, therefore, to be separated." He advocated colonization in Central America and promised them help in carrying out the project.

"Such separation...must be effected by colonization...to transfer the African to his native clime, and we shall find a way to do it, however great the task may be." From a speech delivered in Springfield, IL; 26 June 1857 "What I would most desire would be the separation of the white and black races." From a speech in Springfield; 17 July 1858

"I will say here...I have no purpose to introduce political and social equality between the white and the black race...there is a physical difference between the two, which...will forever forbid them living together upon the footing of perfect equality, and...I am in favor of the race to which I belong, having the superior position." Reply to Stephen A. Douglas in the first joint debate, Ottowa, IL; 21 Aug 1858

"...I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races...nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes...nor to intermarry with white people...I have never seen to my knowledge a man, woman, or child who was in favor of producing a perfect equality, social or political, between Negroes and white men." Opening speech, fourth joint debate with Douglas, Charleston, IL; 18 Sep 1858

And, while prosecuting the war to "free the slaves," Lincoln said:
"I cannot make it better known than it already is, that I strongly favor colonization...in congenial climes, and with people of their own blood and race." Annual message to Congress; 1 Dec 1862

"The [Emancipation] proclamation has no constitutional or legal justification except as a war measure." Letter to Sec. of Treas. Salmon P. Chase; 3 Sep 1863

[Corin Stormhands]

Then there's this old story:

One night President Clinton couldn't sleep, so he took a walk down to the monuments on the mall.

At the Jefferson Memorial, he said "Mr. Jefferson, I wish I could hear advice from you on how what is best for the country."

He heard a voice, "The government that governs best, governs least."

At the Washington Monument, he said, "Mr. Washington, I wish I could hear advice from you on what is best for the country."

He heard a voice, "Never tell a lie."

At the Lincoln Memorial, he said, "Mr. Lincoln, I wish I could hear advice from you on what is best for the country."

He heard a voice, "Go to Ford's Theater..."

[Grand Old Partisan]

One of the first people to greet Abraham Lincoln in Richmond was a white girl who gave him a bouquet of roses and said: "Thank you for freeing the slaves."

[Corin Stormhands]

Well, it was inappropriate in 1865 as well.

[Grand Old Partisan]

On this we agree, S.B.

[republicanwizard]

You are pulling quotations out of context, out of record, and out of logic.

I could come up with exactly opposite quotations.

Go get a life.

I'm getting out of here for a while. I have better things to do than argue with neo-Confederates.

[republicanwizard]

Thank you. Where did you get your Theology degree? From the Crackerjack box?

[Protagoras]

George Mason bump. For him, the school named after him, and the truths they teach there. Walter E Williams bump.

[republicanwizard]

Your point?

[WhiskeyPapa]

I honestly don't give two sh*ts about Abraham Lincoln. I don't consider him saint or satan, more likely a political whore, not unlike many other political whores of that day and this.

What in your life gives you a positive feeling?

If you can't think that there is, (or was, in Lincoln's case), someone who had a good heart and acted on it, wouldn't your experience of life be somewhat like the pessimist who viewed the sunrise and said, "Good God, it's morning!"

Walt

[Corin Stormhands]

I'm sorry, it doesn't take a theology degree to know that there has never been a man who is worthy to be compared to Christ in the manner you have.

I don't care who said it first.