Iraqi defeat jolts Russian military

The Christian Science Monitor ^ | April 16, 2003 | Fred Weir

[jackbill]

Perhaps if they had the money to pay their army, they might get better performance.

[Congressman Billybob]

Please join in a live discussion on RadioFreeRepublic on implications of the Iraq WAR. Now. Billybob Live!

Billybob

[elfman2]

"Its battle tactics called for broad frontal warfare, with massed armor and artillery, and a highly centralized command structure"

Sounds like their whole society. Better reform that first.

[Billthedrill]

Thanks, and a Dragon bump...haven't read it yet but I will, I promise...

[McGavin999]

They are threatened by the Chinese but they don't realize it yet. They will cozy up to the Chinese thinking that will ensure their safety, all the while the Chinese will plan to take them out. Unfortunately, Russia won't figure that out in time because they'll be so caught up in the french/German alliance that it'll take them completely off guard.

[Billthedrill]

A Dragon III bump, that is...read the others...now get back to your word processor!

[Dubya]

I wondered about that also.

[mdmathis6]

"They need to be prepared in case the French back into them."


....and keep their pants on in case the French "rear end them"!

[Dubya]

Yes they need to pay them.

I beleive it will more than money to have good soldiers.

Such as love and respect for them.

[Dubya]

Thanks for the invite.
I don't know how to do that. :^) Sorry.

[polemikos]

"The Iraqi Army was a replica of the Russian Army, and its defeat was not predicted by our generals," says Vitaly Shlykov

And they were feeding this pap to Putin?

[Jeff Head]

Better hurry, Volume III was just published and Volume IV is in work. I'll BUMP you to the latest thread.

The entire series postulates a couple of things in a fictional sense we have been discussing. (1) A highly motivated enemy. (2) A resourceful enemy who develops high-tech of their own that counters some of our critical advantages.

In the latter case it is the Chinese who put our billions in trade surplus and the hight tech factories we are building all over the place over there to good effect in that regard.

I look forward to your thoughts when you finish.

[thoughtomator]

This could boost profits for Russian armsmakers, who are already receiving inquiries from Syria and Iran, according to Shlykov.

[Nick Danger]

"How can we reform our Army when we have not defined the threats it must deal with?" says Mr. Dvorkin. "We must first identify our national interests, then we'll know who our enemies might be."

Lemme help you out here, Vladimir. Your national interest is to maintain Russia's territorial integrity, so that you can someday make use of all the mineral riches your country has in abundance.

The threat to that is from those billion Chinese just South of you, who must be eyeing your very sparsely populated country with some envy. Remember Hitler's old term, lebensraum? Well, that's what the Chinese need. And that's what you have.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure this out, Vladimir. The Chinese have been breeding a generation with a huge surplus of males. That generation is approaching adulthood. Soon, China will be able to field a million men -- men they don't even need; men they can spend as cannon-fodder and not even miss. You figure they're going to invade India? I think it's you.

[oyez]

bfl

[governsleastgovernsbest]

Hmm, the Chinese. Call me naive, but it's hard for me to imagine the Chinese having territorial designs on Russia.

I suppose there could be smaller border disputes, or perhaps third party disputes, and the show of force, if not the actual use of force, could be important.

[Dubya]

Volume IV is in work

Good

[Dubya]

Good info.

[Beck_isright]

This article is full of understatement. Too bad for Putin he pissed of Mr. Bush and there will be less military cooperation now.

[Light Speed]

Hello Jeff.....forwardings are probably not new news to you..but for others to consider.

Russian military technology is to some degree copy of U.S.,Great Britian and Israel.

They however do R&D..and are not likely to spill achievements into the media stream

Everyone here remember the start treaties?....well...missile warheads have been removed from boosters...boosters then crushed.
Warheads are infact all not being destroyed..but housed away..and available to be fitted to newer boosters if needed.

Russia's rockerty prowess....Impressive.
new multistage cryogenic boosters..at present Russian Birds are out doing Ariane..whose consortium is still picking their teeth off the ground after so many equitorial launch failures in Guyanna.

Regular visits to intel sites such as Janes..Stratfor etc reveal a different Russian capability...one that is embracing "Stand off launch" munitions..with a heavy lean towards hypervelocity flight..which means no known system can intercept the missile.

Here..one does not require stealth to the battle arena..one only need launch from the periphery...using numerics to overwhelm the recievers defense grid.
AEGIS...Phalanx...they would get some..but enough would arrive..in short order your fleet are burning hulks.
*** Not my exageration..but a quote from the previous outgoing Admiral of the Pacific theatre fleet who commented that the U.S. Navy would get thrashed if it was to close to Chinas shore..aka..the Taiwan straits.
Same for the Russians should they present a battlegroup and it is mapped via satillite.

Here too would be the real first round should the Russians be confronted in a large theatre conflict...they would be going for satillite grid and radar arrays...theirs would be gone aswell shortly...sort of who goes first gets a definite edge.

Its probably not going to happen..not unless mental insanity spreads like SARS.

China too is embracing the hypervelocity stand off munitions...they have a system to do the mass numeric thingy offshore a certain distance.
China wanted to purchase ex Soviet "Backfire bombers"...Russia refused knowing Bejing would mass them out as stand off launch platforms.
China has built a fighter very similar to the Euro fighter..in some regards it mirrors the Israeli Lavi which was forced out of production by political workings.
Not a threat in reality..but a kodak that they are indeed catching up.

Russia has several aircraft which could go into production..but they would be just advanced aircraft on par with the new F-18 and F-15.
Russia is toolihg on a F-22 comparative..but like the U.S...its a huge fiscal leap..one that even has U.S. defense experts questioning feasability.

Missiles...satillite..radars...EMP...the high ground of R&D....tanks and such are just assets with low value...only usefull if you can get them to the battlefield..keep them there a while.

** Not glorying in Russia or China's technical capabilties...just a passing comment that they are indeed not on the floor like some giant rising from a Drunken stupor....they have sobered up quite a bit of late.