H-1B debate flares as EE jobless rate hits 7 percent

The Work Circuit ^ | April 15, 2003 | Margaret Quan

[mabelkitty]

MANHASSET, N.Y. — Unemployment among electronic engineers soared to 7 percent in the first quarter, the U.S. Department of Labor said last week, surpassing the national jobless rate of 5.8 percent recorded in March.

At the same time, some industry groups are considering lobbying for legislation to raise the annual quota for H-1B visas and allow more foreign technical workers into the United States.

[tm22721]

Engineers (and EEs in particular) are victims of their own success. They created the computer revolution that automated our factories and offices.

As a result, high productivity and competition have created a deflationary spiral, ie companies have no product pricing power. Which means a continual emphasis on cost reduction, ie downsizing/outsourcing to meet the quarterly expectations of Wall St.

But what goes up (productivity) must come down as talent (and capital) eventually seek a more lucrative return in other fields.

BUMP

[B4Ranch]

Politics. I lean to the libertarian side of things, but not that much. Some things are only possible under the federal government, and I'm against free trade. Down with illegal immigration, H1-B, national ID cards, Social Security, and scrutiny of ISP logs.http://www.freerepublic.com/~nakatux/

Bless the H1-B program! 9 posted on 04/15/2003 11:35 AM PDT by Nakatu X

Someone is lying, who is it?

[ex-snook]

"The "official" unemployment number is not a good indicator of actual unemployment."

Anyway you put it, you lose. Transnational corporations control government legislation through campaign contributions and lobbyists. Voters are overmatched in the political arena and jobs will keep disappearing. Pretty soon whole corporations will (because they are 'not American' any longer, they are 'international').

We will exist on a 'consumer' economy as long as our money and credit hold out. The 'production engine' is 'done gone with the wind'. I'm beginning to like 'campaign finance reform'. Only voters can contribute not pacs, etc than can not vote.

[mabelkitty]

If you are telecom, you better lobby your Rep for reconstructing constracts in Iraq.

Someone in CA is already on that.

[Nataku X]

Sorry, heavy sarcasm.

[Maximum Leader]

Sorry, I got to this thread late. My advice to your son would be, the only sure thing in life is death and taxes. The only secure careers in the future are in health care and government. The leg up that your son has over all the H1-Bs is that he's a US Citzen, thus he can get a security clearance.

Also, if you're going to fake minorities-- remember that Asians are higher-achieving in terms of income than even European-Americans, so many instutitions don't consider them disadvantaged like blacks and hispanics are.

What I would recommend is your son label himself a Hispanic and if anyone inquires why he has a "white" name (and they won't because its sort of prying), he can say his mother is Cuban. Look at Bill Richardson... Mexican-American pol, but you'd never guess it from his name.

[Elric@Melnibone]

Finding contracts that see me flying each week to the client site for $80 per hour (or more) plus expenses...takes about 2-5 weeks. Drop that to $50 per hour plus expenses...takes about 1-3 weeks. Drop even further to $30 per hour plus expenses...and I can almost pick up the phone and get a contract.

Oh really!!!

In January of '02, I was laid off from a position in El Paso. In February, I was lucky enough to find a 3-month, W-2 contract in Michigan. Pay was $55/hr, including a $9/hr per diem. No expenses, no fringes, just straight hourly wages.

From the end of that contract until I found my permanent position at the end of September, 0 contracts and only a handful of callbacks. Not anywhere in the country!

I did have one company (which shall remain nameless) in Illinois that thought they "might" want me to come up for an interview to contract to them. The interview trip would be on my own dime. Contract was open ended and expected to run at least a year. Pay would have been $37/hr. No per diem, no expenses, no fringes. I couldn't have afforded to take the contract and maintain two households for that price (but I never told them that).

You didn't mention what your area of expertise is; I'm a software engineer specializing in embedded systems. For the past several years, I've worked in the automotive industry but have also worked in the petroleum industry, automated warehousing, the defense industry and a variety of manufacturing venues.

My references speak highly of me and I've NEVER had a failed project (in an industry where about 30% of them fail).

The truth is, people in the software industry average about 1 job a year (National Policy Association, 1999). (I average about 2.5 years per job but that's because I spent must of the 1980's running my own consulting company.)

[MaggieMay]

Bookmark

[tm22721]

The only secure careers in the future are in health care and government.

These flourishing fields are highly unionized.

But engineers are highly independent types and resistant to unionization due to the 'stigma' attached to that word.

Engineers will have to come down off their high horses and start creating bureaucracies, and fighting management.

BUMP

[Spyder]

Yes, he's pretty technical, pretty much has the stereotypical engineer personality (grin). He'd like MIT, but I have my doubts he'd get in there. UH is quite reasonable. Our daughter wants architecture at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, so that would be a consideration as well.

Thanks!

[Spyder]

Not too late - thanks for answering. I was joking about the ethnicity bit... but I know what you mean. OTOH, there is still some discrimination in Hawaii in some jobs against non-Asians.

Even healthcare isn't that secure - I started as a physical therapist, wrote my own ticket for 20 years, then the bottom fell out of it. It's come back somewhat but I discovered I like doing transcription from home a lot, even if it doesn't quite pay what PT does.

[lelio]

The funny thing is, two months later that department got shut down.
That's also true: if a company starts using cheap labor or offshores a bunch of work that it shouldn't, then it is probably doomed.
A local company here, Click2Learn just laid off some QA people as their job was being done in India (which, surprisingly, is being head up by the brother of an exec at the company). If a company can't spend the money on QA people, which you could pick up for a song right now, then there's going to be trouble in the future with poor products.
What angers me about it is that the average worker takes it on the chin, while management reaps (or their brother in this case) in bonuses for running a company into the ground.

[tyen]

You didn't mention what your area of expertise is; I'm a software engineer specializing in embedded systems.

Systems integration. This is really shorthand for knowing the following technical base skills, to varying degrees, but at a minimum enough to work side by side with highly experienced staff in these areas: network administration, Unix systems administration, Windows systems administration, database administration, shell scripting, Perl scripting, web services programming, socket I/O programming. Embedded systems programmers do this kind of stuff in their sleep. The harder parts, the aspects where lots of technically brilliant people who can do all those technical tasks and then some, yet still cause them to fail at systems integration, are the soft skills. If you're the type who is unhappy when their technical work comprises only 10-50% of their typical day (yet when you do perform technical work, its' performance is expected to be comparable to top performers'), this stuff will quickly burn you out.

Speaking only to others reading this (since you managed your own consulting company before), working through placement firms should only be a temporary condition (1 year, 2 years max), since they will take anywhere from 25-40% of the billing rate to the client. A significant success factor is the ability to sell and market. Pure technical specialists have been under constant commoditization for decades now; and rates for such will continue to deteriorate with no recovery in sight. Clients are willing to pay premium rates for "all in one" type consultants because they are cheaper and faster even though the billing rate is higher, but "all in one" encompasses a broad technical and soft skill range today instead of pure technical skills. From talking to some greybeards of the industry, this has always been the case, but it is simply much more prevalent and expected today.

lelio said:

What angers me about it is that the average worker takes it on the chin, while management reaps (or their brother in this case) in bonuses for running a company into the ground.

This is definitely frustrating, and there is a way to address it, if you have a knack for selling: start your own business. If you already know the company is getting a pasting in its long-term outlook, then it's time to get outta Dodge.

[PatrioticAmerican]

I second that Lobby!

[plusone]

Now you begin to think like blue collar folks! Unions are hated here in freeper land, but they served a purpose. It is a shame that their excesses (mob tie-ins etc) destroyed what was a worthwhile form of protection for average working folks.

[plusone]

And this is precisely the reason that the blue collar crowd was against free trade. You can't trade freely with a country where people make a dollar a day. And the sad thing is that free trade won't help third world workers much, there will be no upwards pressure on wages even as more manufacturing arrives there..there are simply too many desperate people for the number of jobs available. Supply will always exceed demand. Wages won't rise. What this then becomes is a subsidy to companies that relocate there. Basically, free help. And you are expected to compete against this while in a country with high costs of living.

[overtaxed_canadian]

As a comp eng grad with several years of experience, I'd be interested in hearing about the kind of work that you do...

[G Larry]

The U.S. State Dept. is responsible to determine the skill shortages actually exist before providing the H-1 visas.
No such shortage exists and applicants should be denied by our State Dept.

[FreedomAvatar]

The only secure careers in the future are in health care and government.

Given that this country is continuing to drown in an ever-deepening sea of litigation, being a lawyer is one career with a "bright" future.

Of you could build strip-malls.

[ggekko]

You should tell your son to master another area of expertise to compliment his technical skills. The tech market is sluggish for people with specialized tech skills only.

Here in the Chicago area one area that has bucked the national trend is for experienced programmers who also have a subtantive expertise in option pricing models and finance. Artificial intelligence is also another hot area at present.

The long term trend is obvious: specialized but routinized technical skills are starting to be farmed out overseas. Americans with technicals skills AND business analysis skills are still enjoying strong demand for their skills.