Beating down a woman: Vox Day on martial arts and the myth of the American Amazon

WorldNetDaily.com ^ | Tuesday, April 15, 2003 | Vox Day

[demosthenes the elder]

I start them on the .22 for a reason.

[Thorondir]

btw - that WAS on unleaded

Wow!

[SauronOfMordor]

The problem, my friend, in referring to "the martial arts" is that most of them are not any kind of a "martial" art at all. Most of them are sports and not very effective for street fights.

It turns out that an amateur boxer is more likely to come out the winner in a real street fight than a karate black-belt who trained in a "dancing academy", as the boxer is actually used to full-contact, and dealing with pain.

I call most martial-arts places "dancing academies" in that they train people to deal with very artificial situations: Judo moves that rely on the other person wearing a judo outfit to grab onto, absolutely no practice done on anything other than a padded mat, pulling punches (which totally changes the timing), etc, etc

[Thorondir]

Astute observations, all!

[demosthenes the elder]

caffeine in mass quantities mellows me out - it is rough dealing with gadflies when your heart isn't beating and you have a caffeine withdrawal headache ;)

[AnAmericanMother]

How on earth can you carry that thing? It is way too big and too heavy. I usually carry a small .38 revolver and a small .32 derringer.

Because, as my dear old dad says, I hate like hell to shoot a man and then stand there and argue with him. :-D

.38 is marginal for self defense, even with the +P rounds (let's not even talk about the .32, that's marginal for field mice). The .45 is a trifle on the heavy side, but you get used to it. And, God forbid you should actually have to shoot somebody, they will go down and stay there. I have never actually had to shoot anyone (on two occasions simply assuming a Weaver stance was enough to make the assailant beat feet, and I won't shoot a man in the back) but my dad once had to, and a single shot from the .45 knocked the man sprawling. (He saw a lot of GIs who survived 9mm Luger wounds, but he never saw a live German with a .45 hole in him.)

When I'm carrying I usually wear a Bianchi shoulder holster under my jacket, which distributes the weight very nicely. The 1911 is a difficult "summer carry" if you wear your shirt tucked in, not because it's heavy but because it "prints". The new "pager holster" and fanny pack with integral holster are not bad (I won't carry in a purse - it just gives a purse snatcher a free bonus.) But I got the P245 for a little less obvious carry. And people see what they expect to see anyway - which is not a matronly 48 year old packing a 1911.

[tortoise]

Any suggestions as to a suitable shotgun would be welcome.

My lady is 5'2" and 115, and so only a little bit smaller than your daughter. She isn't particularly recoil sensitive and will shoot anything you give her, but one of the problems she had with shotguns was that the 12ga were too heavy for her to use regularly. Her arms would get tired very quickly.

I have a shotgun for just this situation that slight women seem to love: a Remington Model 17 I picked up several years ago (picked out by an ex-girlfriend at gunshow who insisted that I buy it). The Model 17 is a 20ga pump, and they haven't made them in 75 years, but the design is superb. They are very light, have a wonderful trigger, and they don't cost too much even though they do have some collector value. I picked mine up for $175 and it gets a lot of use because half the women I know love the thing. I've thought about picking up another.

I wish Remington would make another shotgun like the Model 17 that was slightly modernized. Their current line of equivalent 870s just don't compare, though I have one.

[semaj]

I've experience with many different martial arts styles from judo, wrestling, kung fu, shotokan, aikido, and boxing. I weigh about 200 lbs. I've sparred with men & women with advanced belts (brown and black) and have always had to pull back considerably so as not to hurt them, much more than when sparring with men. One thing I have noticed is that a women does have one advantage that a man does not. Wiliness. It can and should be used to full advantage by a women when confronted by a male attacker.

[semaj]

"And with gun-fu you don't even have to muss your hair."

You obviously need to move up to a bigger caliber. LOL.

[AnAmericanMother]

Another REALLY good Remington is the old 1148 autoloader, in any gauge.

I have my mom's old dove gun, an 1148 in 28 gauge. It is light, a great natural pointer, and you can literally shoot it all day. I once shot skeet round about with two friends from about 10 in the morning until 4 in the afternoon, with a short break for a Coke and a sandwich. I'm looking for the same model in 12 and/or 20.

I also have my grandfather's Browning "Mankiller" in 16 ga., and it's a punisher. I can't shoot more than a couple of rounds of skeet without feeling like I'm getting beat up. It's not the gauge, because my dad's Parker is a 16 and if it wasn't for the "bang" you'd think it was a 28.

[tortoise]

I really like the old Ithaca 12ga which loaded and ejected from the same port. I have yet to find a pumpgun I like so well.

Yep, several companies made shotguns of that design in the early 20th century. It comes from the same design family as the old Remington Model 17 that I have found to be simply wonderful. I think the design was originally done by Browning, but made by Remington, Ithaca, and one other company.

What I want to know, is why can't they make pump guns that nice today? The whole action of that series was wonderful, much nicer than most of the more "modern" shotguns I have purchased.

[demosthenes the elder]

one thought just struck me: all of the women I have trained to shoot have volunteered specifically to learn how to shoot. It is not something they must do, it is something they have an active desire to do. That might have something to do with their out-of-the-box performance.

[demosthenes the elder]

yeah, being a lightweight myself, I have difficulty hiding my M1911 in a shoulder rig, too. I gave up and went to a pancake holster - less comfortable, a pain in the butt (literally) in a car, but it does let me obey the CCW laws.

[demosthenes the elder]

I acquired a nice carriage gun recently.
sweet balance, very lively to point, excellent ergonomics.
for mass volume of fire, though, I still like that Ithaca... wish I could get my mitts on one.

[demosthenes the elder]

my mother has this terrifying monstrosity of a goose gun by Savge Arms. 12ga 3.5" magnum, 48 inch barrel, 3-round detachable box mag, bolt action... steel buttplate.
That mama puts a HURTIN' on your shoulder, let me tell you!

[demosthenes the elder]

*shrugging* dunno - might be safety factors, might be it requires too many machining ops to be economically viable, might be god-knows-why. I wish I could find a good one for myself. I don't generally like shotguns, but they are aces for home defense.

[AnAmericanMother]

I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.
I will never complain about the Browning 16 again.

(honest).

Did your mom actually BUY that monstrosity, or did she inherit it from a nutty goose-hunting uncle?

[demosthenes the elder]

a patient gave it to her in lieu of cash payment.
she actually uses the damned thing, too!

[kAcknor]

 Savge Arms. 12ga 3.5" magnum, 48 inch barrel, 3-round detachable box mag, bolt action... steel buttplate.

kAcknor Sez:

Three and a half inch magnums? Steel butt? Whoa... Last Monday I took my Mossburg 500 to the range and needed a few extra slugs. I stopped into a local Wally-World clone and they had 3" mag slugs on sale so I picked up a few boxes.

I shot 2 loads of 5 of Wolf standards, then loaded up the magnums. In a word: OUCH. One shot and the entire line stopped and looked to see what had made all the noise.  :)  

I still have the remains of the bruise on my right arm for not having it tucked up properly. I did fire the remaining four shells, but the rest came home to await a winter day and a heavy coat.

"tIqIpqu' 'ej nom tIqIp" (Hit them hard and hit them fast.)

Have you checked the *bang_list today?

[demosthenes the elder]

sabot slugs or those self-rifled muthas?