The 10-hour battle for Curly, Larry and Moe

The Sunday Telegraph ^ | April 13, 2003 | Adam Lusher

[American Soldier]

There are a number of medically trained people in the armed forces who are also combatants; Air Force parajumpers and Army Special Forces medical specialists come to mind. However, those who wear a white armband with a red cross are claiming legal protection from being intentionally targetted for the specific reason that they will not actively seek to kill enemy troops.

Yes, the mechanized medic outfits sometimes have smoke grenades to help them escape, and yes many medics have carried 9MM and .45 handguns for self-defense, but this is different than a normal soldier; normal soldiers (combatants) may engage in purely offensive action regardless of threat to themselves.

Both combat arms and combat support personnel are "combatants" legally speaking. They claim no special protection under the law. Chaplains and medics do. That is why their is a "Chaplain's Assistant" MOS -- the Chaplain's Assistant, when not learning how to assist with religious rites, learns a rifleman's job specifically for the reason that the Chaplain can't shoot anybody. Hence the statement that the Chaplain's Assistant is "the only combatant member of the Unit Ministry Team."

[Mr. Lucky]

I thought pooped was pretty descriptive.

[Lockbar]

I was in a US Armored Divison 30 years ago. I'm so proud of what these "young'uns" have done.

I guess Saddam's "Blackhawk Down" battle plan didn't work!! Eat lead, suckers!!

[Cicero]

It's not usual for medics or chaplains to fight, but there's no law against it. And when you are fighting suicidal Islamic terrorists, they will kill a medic or a chaplain as soon as anyone else.

Keep in mind that defending your comrades against being killed by the enemy can be classed as an act of charity. If that's the only way to keep your buddies from being killed, then so be it.

[dozer7]

"Both combat arms and combat support personnel are "combatants" legally speaking."

OK I am lost. What law forbids a medic from shooting a bad guy? They are armed and beleive me harsh words are not an effective defense or offense. I guess the breakdown is that anybody should be surprised or offended if a medic draws his 9mm and shoots a bad guy. As soon as you strap on a weapon and step on stage you have a duty to shoot bad guys albeit treating the wounded is the first priority as a medic. When sworn in it was clear what out duties were. Not trying to be obtuse here just struggeling with your logic.

regards

the dozer

[tubebender]

A good deal of this fighting was video taped and shown on MSNBC.

Even the photographer said he was ready to grap a gun and fire.

[Snickersnee]

My 20-year old daughter is a medic with the 173d Airborne and is a crack shot with her M16A2 and also the M9 pistol. When she goes out on sick-calls to the Kurds she carries one or another along with her aid-bag. On several occasions she has expressed to me her desire to get a Fedayeen or a Rep. Guard in her sights. Pow! It's virgin-time for you, Sadeekhi!

My older daughter is further south with V Corps COSCOM. Her favorite tool is that automatic grenade-launcher that sits on a ring atop her HEMMT tractor-trailer. A handy thing to have in "ambush alley"! Quick, Allah! More virgins!

Oh, and speaking of non-combatants: in 1943 on Bougainville, my father was pinned down in a creekbed for more than an hour by a tree-mounted Japanese sniper. The regimental chaplain finally disposed of him with one shot from a .45 automatic. My father was astonished. He had never seen anyone hit anything with a .45, let alone a 50 year-old Methodist pastor with coke-bottle specs.

[Daniel Ramsey]

Next stop...Syria

[dozer7]

"Oh, and speaking of non-combatants: in 1943 on Bougainville, my father was pinned down in a creekbed for more than an
hour by a tree-mounted Japanese sniper. The regimental chaplain finally disposed of him with one shot from a .45 automatic.
My father was astonished. He had never seen anyone hit anything with a .45, let alone a 50 year-old Methodist pastor with
coke-bottle specs."

thanks I was running out of words. My two sons have the same attitude as your daughters.

best regards

the dozer

[EaglesUpForever]

I guess Saddam's "Blackhawk Down" battle plan didn't work!!

Perhaps he didn't look behind the movie screen to think of some of the fundamentals behind that conflict... for example the fact that at the time the oval office was disgraced by a rapist traitor that was actively trying to destroy our military. A bit of a different situation now!

[prairiebreeze]

Whoooheee! Sounds like one helluva fight! Chalk it up BIG TIME for the good guys!!

Prairie

[algol]

The regimental chaplain finally disposed of him with one shot from a .45 automatic. My father was astonished. He had never seen anyone hit anything with a .45, let alone a 50 year-old Methodist pastor with coke-bottle specs.

I guess God really was on his side ;-)

[JusPasenThru]

Mowed down like the morons they are.

[tophat9000]

bump

[watchin]

I understand your point. The legality is probably a real concern. But on the other hand ...

No one will suffer more under militant islamonazi torture than the Christian chaplain. These people will shoot civilians, women and children, medics, and chaplains. And they'll hide behind their own. Tough call.

[watchin]

Okay, I don't understand. How is an armed non-combatant who "shoots bad guys" a non-combatant.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Not at all. I'm saying I don't understand the distinction.

And if maintenance is "non-combatant", what does that do to the Iraqi treatment of Private Lynch's fellow soldiers?

[strela]

Sgt Jason Reis, 23, from Pennsylvania, returned with his ACE sporting five dents ... days later he was still shocked, but not by the bullets. "There were bodies burning," he said. "You could smell them and you had to move them out of the way. There were arms and legs lying on the road."

The really lousy part is that Reis will remember that peculiar stench for the rest of his life, and the oddest and most inocuous things will serve to bring back that horrific memory to him. You don't ever forget that smell - I know.

[Dutchgirl]

Lt. Col. Twitty, described as a black John Wayne... I wonder if this is the same man...

Read article here

[Dutchgirl]

Strangely enough, having just finished reading the article accompanying his picture, it just described the battle plan as it happened, in detail, from an article published in the Christian Science Monitor from November 2002.

[American Soldier]

I don't exactly have a problem with it from a purely moral standpoint but there is a problem of military propriety.

I have heard first-hand reports of chaplains doing this in training when there was a risk of a battalion's position being overrun. "Stuff happens," I guess. Frankly, I would do it myself if I were a chaplain. I just wish the reporters would have the good sense to shut the hell up about this.