Genetic evidence links Jews to their ancient tribe

Jerusalem Post (originally) ^ | November 20, 2002 | Judy Siegel

[tommyG]

There is a combined federal campaign (CFC) which has many choices to donate to. One of which is the families of vets who have died during active duty. If all you want, just do a search for the combined federal campaign. Even if you just donate 1 or 2 dollars a month it makes a huge difference because many military members (most) are involved in this. Most military members participate in the annual CFC campaign.
for example

http://www.opm.gov/cfc/01-lists/2002Nat-list-index.htm
http://www.mvpsoa.org/

[tommyG]

When has science ever disproved That Jesus Christ didn't raise from the dead? When did science prove that God doesn't exist? I'm sure science has disproved a whole series of men who have called themselves Christian and have said or done stupid things. But so what, the KKK thinks they are Gods chosen.

[Swordmaker]

If you spent as much time researching the topic itself as you do trying to assassinate those who do, your life might count for something. There is no place for gutter scoffers at the head table.

I have not tried to "assassinate" anyone. By their fruits ye shall know them.

Many of the cited sources are available ONLY from hate-filled fringe groups who have a vile agenda to push. Perhaps the authors did not have that agenda in mind, but they are being used promote and validate that agenda.

E. Raymond Capt provided a CV that attempts to give himself honors he did not earn or deserve to give his ideas more weight than they deserve. Exposing the charlatan IS legitimate. Would you choose to believe a liar?

Those who make extraordinary claims must provide extraordinary proof...

[Swordmaker]

We in America has been taught the method of operation "politically" by the last administration, to attempt to destroy ones enemies. Attempt to destroy credibility, associate one with a known "evil". Intimidate one by insulting, ridicule, you know the flesh side of the firey darts were are warned to be armed for.

Credibility must be earned. Merely claiming credibility is worthless... especially if one must lie about one's education to do so.

Sources of information MUST be known and examined to learn if there is an agenda distorting that information. If the source of the information is suspect, then so is the information.

I went far beyond the obvious research on your citations to see if they could be acquired from any other sources... and except for a couple of used book stores, half of them were available ONLY from organizations that are pushing either neo-nazi, white supremacy or Christian Identity ideologies. That makes the source extremely suspect.

If your sources and theorists are unbelievable, then the arguments you make based on those sources and theories are themselves, unbelievable. Your sources have been discredited... perhaps you need to reconsider your position.

[Destro]

Well said, Sabertooth!! You know all those Church Fathers-you know the ones with the hard to pronounce Greek and Latin names-men who were taught by men who lived with and were appointed to positions by the Apostles themselves-and thus DIRECTLY Physically as well as spiritually linked to Christ wrote up all you need to know about being a Christian. Any revision is a heresy and a fraud and a damnable offense. These pseudo-Christians are worse than Cathars and Bogomils in my book.

The origins of these pseudo Protestant theories arise in the late 19th century when the Western Europeans looked back in antiquity and found their origins less than ideal and living in a time when cultic anti-Semitism was growing. Suddenly, worshiping God who took on the form of a Jewish man by a religion founded by Jews, something the Church (even during the Dark Ages) always took as a good sign (i.e., the Jewish tradition was designed by God to produce a Chosen People that would be worthy enough from which to produce his Son from) became problematic. In order to over come this sense of inferiority (how can the Germanic peoples who have all these newly built factories be inferior to those Southern folk?) and to accommodate their cultic anti-Semitism the Lost-Tribes of Israel as an origin for the Germanic peoples was born.

The need to invent some sort of Folk history is also akin to the Afro-centric Black Nationalists who also invoke links to Ancient Egypt that do not exist.

Their is little different in say the Black Israelite movement (who also claim Jews of today are not really the true Jews) and the Germano-Israelite groups.

[Destro]

You show a lack of understanding what science is and what the sceintific method is all about.

[ALS]

You are a moron.

You stated clearly that our sources of information are from nazi sources.

Hence, you are a moron.

Obsess elsewhere, and stay off the skinhead sites, they are screwing with your mind(what little there is).

[tommyG]

Science can't prove issues of faith.

According to the bible "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Hebrews chapter 1 verse 1

Faith isn't as magical as people make it out to be. It takes evidence and proof. Many can say I have faith that Tiger Woods will beat Jordan in a game of basketball. They can sell their souls for that belief, they can sell all and give all for that belief. That isn't faith -- that is a demonstration of foolish wishfulness. Some call that blind faith, I call it foolishness.

I have faith that Roy Jones Jr. will win his next boxing match. Based on his previous performances, I've got a great chance of being right. I haven't seen him win his future fight, but I'm exercising my faith that he will most certainly win.

I have faith in my eyes. I believe that if I look both ways before I cross the street I will not get hit by a vehicle.

When I look at a wonderful picture, or nicely crafted piece of furniture, I have faith that a human created it. It never crosses my mind that a monkey or a bear might have created it.

When I look at the wonders of creation I conclude that a wonderful and awesome Creator must have done the work. I never suppose that a man might have created the tree or came up with the concept of seed bearing.

Science can demonstrate things that are not seen. To name a few, Air, Magnetism, Radio Frequencies, and gravity.

Albet Einstein said, "God does not play dice with the universe." (I hope I quoted that correctly)

Mr.Newton was also fully aware of a creator.

Science doesn't go against God. Now we need to decide who has done more harm to the Evidence of a Creator, is it the phoney scientist or the phoney preachers? They have all taken a toll.

[Sabertooth]

You stated clearly that our sources of information are from nazi sources.

What's been stated is that Aryan Nation and Christian Identity types respect your sources, much moreso than mainstream archaeologists, anthropologists, Historians, linguists, and geneticists. This is a real problem for your position.

[billbears]

Actually I kind of ignore Protestantism interpretations of the Bible.

What about Baptist interpretations? Baptists aren't Protestant

[billbears]

Well I guess you indirectly answered the questions I put to you back in #127. You remember where you accused me of bearing false witness and slander? However from copious information posted by others backing up my stance it seems your claim was false.

But just to be on the safe side let's put the two questions to you again shall we?

A) Are the Jewish people today in Israel the same Jewish people of the old Testament (God's Chosen People) AND
B) if they are do they have a right to the land and a homeland that they feel is the land God gave to them?

Take your time, although I doubt you'll bother answering them since you didn't the first time. A simple yes or no will do.

[Just mythoughts]

Credibility, now you want to talk credibility, where is yours.

Let's be honest here, Have you read the Bible, know those places where "man" has been allowed to twist a little here and there, change words. I think not else you would not be so desperate to change the subject.

"What is going far beyond obvious research"? Who did you get to do your research? Who is in charge of deciding who is scholarly and not? Based upon what?

"Agenda" that word has an implication, so give your own agenda, what is your motivation?

Let's be clear here what exactly I have said.

First off I responded to the article "Genetic evidence links Jews ancient tribe", dumped at the end was a tiny little tid bit about the "ten tribes".

Now, without the body of Jacob/Israel there is no proof that can be legally claimed by "ANYBODY", I don't care what they call themselves today, to say that they are from the tribes of Jacob/Israel.

However, because of what was promised good and bad, one can follow the footsteps.

I was asked to give some sources. Now obviously, being unaware of the "agenda", by many here stupid me listed some books that described what others have written.

Obviously, you did not read what I said before the list and after the list that if the books went against what is WRITTEN, the Word is correct.

The whole point of what happened to those "ten tribes", is the very fact it is written that THEY would have removed from their remembrance WHO they were.

Obviously you have not read who will give their memory back, and it is not going to be man.

You have not discredited anything but yourself, by jumping in the middle of a discussion without anymore proof to the subject matter than anyone else.

Many use the Bible itself to make their own way, do you discredit it and its scholars, who educated them.

Considering that the children were to be as numerous as the stars of heaven and the sand of the sea, you really think all will fit in that tiny piece of real estate. Spend some time in the Book of Ezekiel.

Again it is Written those "Ten Tribes" were sent into captivity by the Assrian King, they would be scattered to the four corners, would be a great nation, and yet they would not know who they are. Now you figure that out.

[tommyG]

You show a lack of understanding what science is and what the sceintific method is all about.

I have a dictionary and I understand what science is supposed to be. Unfortunately, what you call science isn't in the dictionary -- your science is a mix of peoples hate and a wad of nothingness created by a group of men with 12 years of college under their belt. They all need to smoke more hash, and learn to shut up while the rest of us poor ignornat souls appreciate the power of child birth, the beauty of a flower and the wonder of this creation we live in.

I have a hard time believing that Darwin was so perplexed by the fact that the white moths were being eaten before the darker mouths ... PERHAPS the birds saw the white ones better? Is that science or common sense? Or lets call it survival of the bionic ... no science involved when you have a herd of retards following a retard and that's all you have today -- professors/scientist riding the train of the less gifted. Darwin wasn't all that bright and several still attempt to ride on his attempts to come up with ground breaking somethingness. He is no different than Joseph Smith, Leaky and the rest of the nerds that put "try to be different" ahead of decency. Daddy didn't pay enough attention to any of them.

Detro, if you tell me Ivory soap floats, I will go to the sink, fill it up and place a bar of Ivory soap in it and if it floats, I'll take the findings and believe ... that is science. If you tell me that Aliens are currently flying around our planet and abducting people ... I'm going to have to challenge you.

based on the law of averages there has to be life on other planets. that isn't science. Right? But that is certainly called science fiction until proven otherwise.

Taking a tooth and making a male and female skull from it, that isn't science is it? And when someone calls you a retard because the tooth that you created these skulls from belonged to a pig from long ago, that isn't nice and polite, is it? And when men dig up skulls and stain them with tea so that the skull appears aged, that isn't science, right? etc ... I know what science is according to the dictionary.

Perhaps you should hand out your version of the dictionary so that we can all come up to your level.

[Just mythoughts]

"Specious" to whom, obviously it was important enough for our Heavenly Father to put it over and over and over again on paper. He even made sure we got it this very day. HAVE YOU NOT READ?

"Remanant" now that is a very interesting word, used many times, do you know what it means in the Hebrew and Greek.

The ten lost tribes are only lost to themselves, our Heavenly Father never lost them. He says he took who they were from their memory, do you know why, and do you know who is going to open that memory?

Apparently not else you would not use the word specious.

[tommyG]

A) Are the Jewish people today in Israel the same Jewish people of the old Testament

The Jews of the Old Testament have passed away. But there are still Jews living in Israel.

Sorry, I couldn't resist

[Just mythoughts]

Actually in this day and age it is knowledge, very few have wisdom or a clue who gives wisdom.

The difference being man's power comes from control of knowledge, our Heavenly Father being in complete control is where wisdom comes from.

[rdb3]

Actually in this day and age it is knowledge, very few have wisdom or a clue who gives wisdom.

Wrong again. Knowledge is not power. That was and still is a fable with a nice ring to it.

Wisdom is power. We are instructed to ask God for it. Therefore, every man can have wisdom. Just ask.

"[I]n this day and age" also has a nice sound to it, but in reality it's nothing more than shibboleth. Wisdom has been and is universal in its strength over mere knowledge since time began. Knowledge makes educated fools most of the time. That's it.

Knowledge is not power.

[Just mythoughts]

If control of knowledge is not the present power of this age then why did we have a "pervert" as president for two terms.

Proverbs describes "wisdom" and where it comes from.

Reverence of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge:

It is our Heavenly Father's will whether one is given "wisdom". Some would not know what to do with the "wisdom" from our Father, check out this thread.

This "day and age" is quite appropriate - the flesh age.

[tommyG]

Knowledge makes educated fools most of the time.

Knowledge never makes educated fools. Lies make, the big twist makes, deception makes edumacated fools.

Knowledge and wisdom tend to make people of sorrow -- see the writings of Solomon (for details see below).

Ecclesiastes 1:18 For in much wisdom [is] much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.

[Just mythoughts]

Interesting, no one has produced a historian, linguist, or even one who knows the scripture to give their evidence.

All kinds use the Bible for their own agenda. This being the case guess that is why they seemed to have discredit it along with its scholars. Would not want to be offended by what is Written.

They haven't even read the "suspect" books themselves to see what they say, let along be able to prove with scripture what is wrong with it.

They want to be the mainstream, of education more concerned with be accepted by the majority that being "ACCEPTABLE".

No one here has any evidence to say where those ten tribes ended up and the best they can do is call names.

They don't even recognize what was Written, the promises given to each of the tribes, they are too busy carrying water for their agenda.