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Should American Christians Die To Liberate Iraqi Muslims?
ood Reports ^ | April 9, 2003 | Mary Mostert

Posted on 04/09/2003 7:45:02 AM PDT by Stand Watch Listen

A reporter asked General Vincent Brooks at a CENTCOM press briefing Doha, Qatar on Monday, before it was announced bombs were dropped on a restaurant containing Saddam, "What, to your mind, constitutes victory?…Can you claim victory while Saddam eludes you?"

While the question was actually a stupid question, it does indicate the massive confusion that passes for journalism in the media these days by reporters sitting in chairs far from the battlefield. This is not a battle waged with swords, after all, when the winner of the contest can cut off the head of the enemy and present it to the king. Just as many bodies were never found when the World Trade Center was demolished by terrorists, its possible, all the bodies of those killed in that restaurant may never be found.

What constitutes victory? Victory occurs when Saddam Hussein’s repressive regime ends. The only reason why a reporter or anyone else would ask such a stupid question is because they don’t know or don’t want to report what that regime has been doing for the past twenty plus years. According to a White House report on Life under Saddam Hussein, means that "many hundreds of thousands of people have died as a result of his actions - the vast majority of them Muslims."

A 2001 Amnesty International report stated:

"Victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."

I have received numerous e-mails from anti-war activists that tell me there is no difference between Saddam Hussein and President George W. Bush. Some of those e-mails have come from college professors and college students, which makes me wonder what is being taught these days in universities. According to anti-war activists such as the Campaign Against Sanctions on Iraq (CASI) at Cambridge University in England, it is that somehow George W. Bush who is responsible for a reported increase in deaths of children in Iraq in recent years, not Saddam Hussein. Oddly enough, for eight years in the 1980s, when Iran and Iraq were fighting a war in which an estimated two million Muslims died, anti-war activists conducted no demonstrations opposing it, nor have they said a word about the boxes of body parts found recently by Coalition troops that appear to be the mostly remains of Iranians killed in the 1980s.

Should America be expending its blood and its treasure to end a regime that tortures and slaughters its own people? Political correctness has morally equated Saddam Hussein´s 20 years of conquest of neighboring nations to seize their oil wells, with George W. Bush´s determination to put an end to his power and repression. Is there a moral equivalent?

On Sunday in a broadcast heard in 56 languages in most of the world, the president of the eleven million member Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Gordon B. Hinckley, dealt directly with that question. He said:

"Last Sunday as I sat in my study thinking of what I might say on this occasion, I received a phone call telling me that Staff Sergeant James W. Cawley of the U. S. Marines had been killed somewhere in Iraq. He was 41 years of age, leaving behind a wife and two small children.

"Twenty years ago Elder Cawley was a missionary of the Church in Japan. Like so many others, he had grown up in the Church, had played as a school boy, had passed the sacrament as a deacon, and had been found worthy to serve a mission, to teach the gospel of peace to the people of Japan. He returned home, served in the Marines, married, became a policeman, and was then recalled to active military duty, to which he responded without hesitation.

"His life, his mission, his military service, his death, seem to represent the contradictions of the peace of the gospel and the tides of war."

President Hinckley then gave a brief historical overview of war, beginning with account of the war in heaven in Chapter 12, verses 7-9 of Book of Revelations:

"And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not, neither was their place found anymore in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

As we watch the news from Baghdad, especially as we watch Iraq's Information Minister Mohammed Saeed al-Sahaf tell the world that "The US will surrender" it isn´t really all that hard to figure out who it is that is deceiving the world in the current conflict, the Arab media notwithstanding.

The Church leader went on to quote other Scriptures, including Isaiah, the Book of Mormon, Romans and even the British essayist Thomas Carlyle then asked and answered the rhetorical question:

"Where does the Church stand in all of this?

"First, let it be understood that we have no quarrel with the Muslim people or with those of any other faith. We recognize and teach that all the people of the earth are of the family of G-d. And as He is our Father, so we are brothers and sisters with family obligations one to another."

If we are brothers and sisters with family obligations to those of a different race, religion and nationality, do we, then, have a moral responsibility to care enough about what happens to them to DO something?

According to LDS Church President Gordon B. Hinckley, we do. He reminded his worldwide audience that Jesus Christ himself said:

"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword." – Matt. 10:34

In this war in Iraq, debated by national leaders and condemned by most of the Muslims of the world, it is mostly Christian men like James Cawley who are dying to help liberate a group of Muslims from the grasp of an evil Muslim dictator who tortures and uses chemical weapons to kill his own people.

I must agree with President Hinckley who concluded:

"I believe that G-d will not hold men and women in uniform responsible as agents of their government in carrying forward that which they are legally obligated to do. It may even be that He will hold us responsible if we try to impede or hedge up the way of those who are involved in a contest with forces of evil and repression."


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs
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To: Spirited
Religion shouldn't be an issue. We are all human beings; brothers and sisters in this creation. If we lay our theological differences aside the more we will be able to help one another. Unfortunately I don't believe enough people will come to see this and the struggle between good and evil will continue ad infinitum.
21 posted on 04/09/2003 8:53:59 AM PDT by zeebob
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To: Stand Watch Listen
"As he died to make men Holy,

Let us die to make men free."

22 posted on 04/09/2003 8:55:26 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: zeebob
Religion really isn't an issue, but many would want it to be.
23 posted on 04/09/2003 9:15:14 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: Constantine XIII
I agree but I doubt you'll find much applause here.
24 posted on 04/09/2003 9:19:34 AM PDT by wardaddy (G-d speed our fighters!)
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To: stuartcr
I must disagree with your assertion that this country is not as it is due to the influence of the Christian, and specifically the Protestant religion ("a country without a king, a church without a pope"). The Founders were Protestants almost without exception. The Protestant ethic infuses everything that is American. The United States could not have been formed in the way it was, for example, by Muslims. Those who elect to maintain their own foreign religion upon arriving here are only provisional Americans.
25 posted on 04/09/2003 9:23:09 AM PDT by henderson field
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To: Stand Watch Listen
American Christians, Jews, etc. did not go over there to free Muslims. That has become the mantra now and it makes for good PR. It's the graavy.

We went there to crush a regime that could create weapons to be used by our enemies...the islamists.
26 posted on 04/09/2003 9:24:26 AM PDT by wardaddy (G-d speed our fighters!)
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Should a Jewish Carpenter have to die for you?

Brilliant reply.

27 posted on 04/09/2003 9:25:47 AM PDT by A2J (Hootie should kick Burk in her booty.)
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To: stuartcr
I also do not believe that our country is the way it is because of Christian natures.

I agree.

Had we remained with the Christian virtues from which the nation was built, we would not be killing millions of our own babies.

28 posted on 04/09/2003 9:29:59 AM PDT by A2J (Hootie should kick Burk in her booty.)
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To: henderson field
Of course it couldn't have been formed by Muslims, it also couldn't have been formed by Jews, Janists, Buddhist or Hindus...it was formed by white europeans, which happen to have been Christians. What makes this country great is the fact that there are self-evident truths to human nature...not Christian, not any religion, but truths given to us by God, with no affiliation to any religion created by man.
29 posted on 04/09/2003 9:36:01 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: wardaddy
And to secure some fuel.
30 posted on 04/09/2003 9:36:41 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: A2J
Actually people did abort babies, even back then, but it wasn't legal.
31 posted on 04/09/2003 9:38:33 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
Had we wished to "secure" oil, we would have just made a deal with Saddam and ignored his danger and bought all the oil we wanted.

And it would have been a lot cheaper than this was economically.
32 posted on 04/09/2003 9:41:13 AM PDT by wardaddy (G-d speed our fighters!)
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To: wardaddy
As you said in your #26....it's part of the graavy.
33 posted on 04/09/2003 9:54:38 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: stuartcr
On its face, this would seem reasonable. If this is true we would expect to see free Non-Christian nations, but I cannot think of any off the top of my head. I guess the country that comes closest would be Japan. Even Japan, however, isn't the United States.

The fact of the matter is that areligious revolutions tend to focus on materialism, like the French and Russian Revolution. The scholars of both countries were steeped in the tradition of Enlightenment philosophy, as our founders were, but how much did it help?

Non-Christian religious revolutions and reorganizations generally have unpleasant outcomes, especially for those not with the new "in" crowd. I won't say "Ayatollah you so." (dodges flying trout)

We can agree to disagree, though. Nifty, isn't it?! :o)

34 posted on 04/09/2003 9:58:01 AM PDT by Constantine XIII
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To: Constantine XIII
Faces usually are reasonable. When you describe nations as being Christian, non-Christian, etc, do you mean the majority of it's population? A nation is not religious, it's the people. This country is made up of many people of many beliefs. When Jefferson was president, was this a Deist country? Did Lincoln make it a non-religious country, Kennedy Catholic, etc? Our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution, and all of our people are what makes this country the way it is, not some stand on differing religious beliefs. To get back to my original statement...I still think humans die to liberate other humans.
35 posted on 04/09/2003 10:07:30 AM PDT by stuartcr
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Should American Christians Die To Liberate Iraqi Muslims? Should a Jewish Carpenter have to die for you?

You said it! The fact is that Americans are dying to protect America. The best protection is a foreign buffer state which is no threat at all.

36 posted on 04/09/2003 10:46:08 AM PDT by illumini (AMERICA. Love her or leave her!)
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To: Ga Rob
You said, "I do not need a man made dogma, no matter what it's called to tell me what is right or wrong. If you do, well great, I'm glad. But don't lump me in. Thanks."

Having freed yourself from the confines of religious "dogma", please enlighten us as the standard you use to differentiate right from wrong. I'm very curious to know, really.

37 posted on 04/09/2003 10:46:37 AM PDT by MOX
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To: MOX
It's quite simple, I know morally what is right or wrong. Maybe it was the way I was raised. It really is quite simple. Murder=Bad. Stealing=Bad. Helping Others=Good. Abortion=Bad. Being faithful=Good. Liars=Bad. Liberty=Good. Tyranny=Bad. Do you really need a book written by men to tell you these things?

Please don't get me wrong. I'm not knocking "religon" for others. I believe that whatever gets you through life and helps you to be a good person is great. I just find that I don't need it.

By the way.....super extra guard flame suit on
38 posted on 04/09/2003 10:58:52 AM PDT by Ga Rob (Only the Useful Idiots are left...how sad.......)
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To: Ga Rob
Ah.... so YOU are the standard, the last word on universal right and wrong? Or do you mean each individual sets his/her own standard? If the latter, what makes Sadam a demon dictator and you a patriot saint? You see, by your argument you are either a solipsist or complete moral relativist. Both of these lead to utter chaos.
39 posted on 04/09/2003 11:06:07 AM PDT by MOX
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To: Zavien Doombringer
Should a Jewish Carpenter have to die for you?

Well worth repeating.

40 posted on 04/09/2003 11:12:56 AM PDT by k2blader ("Mercy, detached from Justice, grows unmerciful." - C. S. Lewis)
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