***Operation Iraqi Freedom - Situation Room - Day 19 - LIVE THREAD***

Multiple ^ | April 7, 2003 | Various

[tricky_k_1972]

For all those who wan't a true color of the same area as the green PMSNBC cam plug : http://cgi.cbs.com/video/video.pl?url=/broadcast/*/livenews.rm&plugin=1&proto=rtsp

into your realplayer.

[Senator_Palpatine]

New Republican Guard Tank patrolling Baghdad.....

:-)

[LikeLight]

Post a link and I'll check for you. Are you logged on?

[fiesti]

I am really PC dummy. I have no sound on real player at all.Any suggestions

[Mo1]

well, after a second or two of "thought," i've concluded what this place needs is, yes, bagpipes

LOL .. works for me

[furball4paws]

WMD

Tabun, Sarin and VX gas(es). All three of these are chemically related and kill through the same mechanism. They are organophosphate derivatives and are nerve agents. They act by inhibiting cholinesterase activity. Basically you die from respiratory failure. They are relatively quick. The lethal dose for a 180 lb person is about 120 micrograms through inhalation, absorption through the skin or eyes VX is the most toxic followed by sarin and tabun. Tabun releases cyanide when reacting with water (is this the Euphrates stuff?). They are all water sensitive. A good rain will rapidly neutralize them.

Mustard Gas and Chlorine and Phosgene. These were used in WWI by he Germans. They are very reactive and heavy so they stay close to the ground. Mustard gas is slow to kill and causes extreme pain. They have many difficulties as far as delivery is concerned. Civilized nations outlawed these things shortly after WWI.

Biological Toxins. Ricin is a mixture of a lectin and hemagglutinin from Castor beans. It is one of the most toxic natural substances known, a lethal dose for a 180 lb person would be around 100 micrograms (you can barely see this much) after 48 hrs. It is very painful and difficult to treat. Botulinum toxin is a peptide substance from the bacterium Clostridium botulinum. After ingestion, it takes 24-36 hours for symptoms to show and it is then too late to clear out the substance. This is why pressure canning is required. Every year some people die from this from improperly canned foods. Aflatoxins. About 2 dozen substances produced by Aspergillus flavus and other molds. Very toxic after ingestion and has cumulative effects if it is not ingested in sufficient quantities to kill; it is also a potent carcinogen. Citrinin, a mold toxin from "yellow rice" This was used in SE Asia purportedly by the USSR and delivered by air as "yellow rain".

Bacteria and viruses. The US and USSR worked for many years on plague (bubonic plague caused by Yersinia (Pasteurella, old name) pestis). It is very nasty and kills quickly when it can be introduced in a respiratory phase. It is endemic in certain areas of the world. In the US at the 4 corners region. Anthrax. We all know about this one. The 2 most debilitating diseases from an economic point of view worldwide are influenza and malaria. Smallpox. We have been hearing about this one also. It is extremely dangerous and readily transmitted from person to person.

Conclusions. The gases are dangerous on a short term basis. VX is the worst of these. They are easy to deliver, but because of their high reactivity are relatively easy to deactivate. Actually Iraq would be a good place for these because of its arid climate.

Toxins. These are hard to deliver. Ricin would be easy to make as would be botulinum, but who would want to work with them to make enough?

Bacterial diseases - anthrax and plague. Plague is more deadly but difficult to make and store and deliver. Anthraz as we have seen is easy to make and is extremely stable, but it is not very contagious so outbreaks would be quite limited.

Virus. Smallpox. A perfect disease if it can be delivered and muslims set on martyrdom could easily do this. It is easily transmitted to other people and quite deadly. The last smallpox case was about 30 years ago in India and we now have a whole generation that has not been vaccinated (BTW the word "vaccination" comes from the old vaccinia, the name for smallpox).

A final word about SARS. The CDC will have this baby figured out by the end of the month. The Chinese did a very poor job of public health when the outbreak was first noticed. So you conspiracy theorists can have a field day with it. My experience with the Chinese is that they are not scientifically adept enough to purposely do this type of thing, but some microbiologist see it as more than coincidence that all these new viral things seem to appear in China and Hong Kong (before the British left). Then there is ebola which Clancy loves, but his books are pretty good on showing it's shortcomings as a bioweapon.

The ideal WMD (non-nuclear) is easy to deliver, causes severe symptoms, but it doesn't have to kill. Flooding hospitals and field stations is good enough. Fortunately, none of the above meet these criteria.

This is pulled mainly from my memory and a Merck Chemical Index so I may be off in some details, but the general facts are clear and correct. I hope I don't scare you, but I think information is always useful.

[commish]

I couldn't get it to come on earlier ..I have the CBS and MSNBC cams up.

[LikeLight]

SaddamM1A1Donkey

[Timeout]

I just learned a new word: lodgements.

Gen. McInerny used it talking about the points we control in Baghdad. It's not even in the dictionary.

I like it. American lodgements!

[crobnson]

Now that's funny.

[TomGuy]

Pres pallace. probably some nice digs and maybe a shower

Rightly deserved...and it will probably be the Mother of All Showers.

[A. Morgan]

The same as me.... that what I get for taking a nap.

[LikeLight]

Well, embarrassingly enough, I couldn't get the sound to work because my volume control had the mute button on . . . you can always check that . . .

[glock rocks]

oh great. now i've got waltzing matilda running through my head.

[fiesti]

ty but already learned that lesson lol

[Dog]

Bret Bair on Fox just said senior Pentagon officials that more Baghdad tours are planned..

[Freedom'sWorthIt]

Will try to remember that term: American lodgements (is this a military term?) Whatever it is, it's what we have now. Keep praying everyone - the battle is not over.

[fiesti]

think I will go and wipe it out and re install with help of hubby ty don't want to miss any booms tonight :-)

[Mo1]

oh great. now i've got waltzing matilda running through my head.

That's ok .. Sandy the barking dog has me singing the Annie song "Tomorrow"

[tricky_k_1972]

I lived 30 days with only a kevlar shower and shave and 4 changes of uniforms during my lovely 2 year vacation as part of the 101st Screaming Eagles. I don't even want to think about what I smelled like.

The first thing we did was grab a beer and a shower (in that order). We didn't even go into our rooms with our clothes on, just left them standing at the door with our bags, didn't want to stink up the room.