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Can you really `support the troops' while opposing the war?
The King County Journal (Seattle area) ^ | April 6th, 2003 | John Carlson (columnist & talk-show host)

Posted on 04/06/2003 6:37:00 PM PDT by Eala

``I support our troops, I just don't support the war.''

You're hearing that more and more from many people who oppose the war. It's a rhetorical blanket, worn for protection lest people question their patriotism. But it doesn't always sound sincere and it occasionally sounds absurd.

For instance, during last Tuesday's Pearl Jam concert in Denver, lead singer Eddie Vedder rapped the war in Iraq while assuring the crowd ``I support the troops.'' But near the show's end he took a mask of President Bush -- the Commander in Chief of the armed forces -- impaled it on a microphone, slammed the microphone down on the stage and stomped on it. I wonder how ``the troops'' would react if Vedder pulled that stunt in front of them overseas?

For more than half a year, America had what America needs more of -- robust debates about an important policy matter. Was Saddam Hussein so serious a threat to America and the world that we should force him to give up genocidal weapons even if it meant war?

Good arguments were made on both sides, and while that debate raged, protests, marches and demonstrations made perfect sense. This is, after all, America. But once the policy was decided, and young Americans were called into action to risk their lives on the battlefield, the protesters should either have closed ranks behind the president (like Ted Kennedy and Hillary Clinton did), or stood respectfully on the sidelines.

The debate was over and the war was on with real lives hanging in the balance. Saying ``I support the troops but I oppose the war'' at a time like this simply makes no sense, logically. What do you think the troops in the Persian Gulf are doing?

If the war goes badly, you can bet there will be new debates on whether to bring the troops home. But this war by any account other than Saddam's isn't going badly. It has been an astounding success so far. Never has the American military moved so far so fast with so few casualties. America and Great Britain are not only winning the war, they are making military history.

That's one reason the anti-war movement is shrinking. But as mainstream liberals stand down, the left wing core of the anti-war movement has been exposed, and it's not a pretty sight. Three Saturday's ago, history was made in Bellevue when the largest demonstration in the city's history took place -- 5,000 people by police estimates -- to support the troops. American flags were everywhere. The mood was upbeat, patriotic, ebullient.

On that same day, about 3,000 anti-war protesters marched sullenly in downtown Seattle to the Jackson Federal Building. If you watched the news and read the next day's papers, you found out that 18 arrests were made, while anti-war leaders complained that the police were intimidating them by wearing riot gear and not letting them block traffic (they had no permit).

But here is what you didn't hear or read. The protesters closest to the police lines repeatedly tried to provoke physical confrontations. The cops were spat on - some of them dozens of times. That's a crime, but police were told by their superiors not to arrest anyone for doing it. So they kept doing it.

Black officers were called the ``N'' word, again, repeatedly. Other minority and female officers were singled out for especially ugly slurs, such as an Hispanic officer being called a ``race traitor.'' All this coming from people who call themselves ``progressives'' and ``peace activists.'' Amazingly this got zero press attention even though the press was there. And there was no criticism or condemnation of their behavior by any Seattle city official or politician.

A dirty little secret has been exposed. The core of this movement isn't anti-war; it is anti-American. And its leaders are hateful.

They hate George W. Bush, they hate free enterprise, they hate middle-America -- especially the suburbs -- they hate the cops and most of all they hate having to follow rules they don't want to follow. They have the same attitude toward America that an unruly 14-year old has toward his parents: automatic, knee jerk hostility.

Principled, patriotic liberals should start denouncing this extremism in their own ranks. At the very least stop calling them ``peace protesters.'' Not when it takes police in riot gear to keep the peace at their protests.

John Carlson is founder of Washington Policy Center and can be heard daily from 3-6 p.m. on radio station KVI-570. His column appears every other Sunday. Readers can contact him via e-mail at jcarlson@fisher radio.com.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antiamerican; antiwar; appeaseniks; hypocrisy; iraq; liberals; michaeldobbs; peaceniks; protest; riots; war
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To: Cacophonous
I think you are dead wrong. You see, I was involved in Desert Storm and when I came back to the States, I ran into some broad who spouted the same line you just did "I opposed the war, but supported the troops". Then I asked her "What do you think that the troops thought of what you did?" And I proceeded to let her know that anyone, and I mean anyone who goes out to protest endangers the lives of my brothers -in- arms. How? By emboldening those who hate America to kill our troops is how! You don't have the moral courage to put your ass on the line in battle, so how about just shutting the f*ck up and letting them do their job. Its people like you who don't care about the why of it who put us into harm's way. As long as you can go to your 8 to 5 job, come home to your house, kick the dog and kiss the wife and set on your ass in front of the TV, and earn your paycheck ... you're in hog heaven. But who do you think allows you the freedom to do that? I'll tell you ... the same soldiers who you say you support, but oppose what they're doing. That's what I really despise about moral cowards like you, the ability to shoot off your mouth about something you have no clue about. I am proud to have served for 20 years, at least I can say that I have made the world a little safer during my time having been a part of the reason the Cold War ended.

What have you done that is of consequence in the larger scheme of life?

61 posted on 04/06/2003 8:54:23 PM PDT by Colt .45 (Can I get an "Amen"?)
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To: Long Cut
I think the crowds at Saddamite rallies are dwindling down to the real anti-Americans. I think taking cameras and recording faces and car tags is a nice idea.
62 posted on 04/06/2003 8:55:16 PM PDT by Travis McGee (----- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com -----)
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Comment #63 Removed by Moderator

To: Eala
"A dirty little secret has been exposed. The core of this movement isn't anti-war; it is anti-American. And its leaders are hateful."

The writer didn't go far enough. They are a clear and present danger to the rest of us, and the powers that be need to start treating them accordingly.
64 posted on 04/06/2003 9:05:58 PM PDT by JoJo Gunn (Help control the Leftist population. Have them spayed or neutered....)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
"That is Saddam's plan!"

The Heussein Doctrine Unfolds!!!

65 posted on 04/06/2003 9:41:29 PM PDT by SierraWasp (Media Advisory: Don't believe anything you hear and only half of what you see!!!)
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To: Eala
NOPE! It's like the libs that said they "abhor what Clinton did in the White House, however..." Talking out their a$$e$, trying to play both sides as usual.
66 posted on 04/06/2003 9:43:08 PM PDT by tinacart
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To: StarfireIV
Hi Starfire, I know we talked about this at our last party. I am at a church that is very patriotic and supports the troops and our administration. I couldn't attend one which I felt was wrong. If they led me down the wrong path on one issue, why should I trust them on another. Also, they give full measure to Jesus christ, which I hold as mandatory.

Forces have changed our society from the family oriented 50s to what we have have now - death by "diversity." And this has leaked into our churches as well. Recently I attended an "informal" service at my old family church. The two children in the fron pew were taking the bulletins and turning them into paper airplanes. I learned that they were the CHILDREN of the pastor! In addition, when people's children couldn't see the choir when we stood to sing parents had them STAND on the velvet pew cushions. And the talking! When I attended as a child, getting to attend grown-up services was a privledge. You did NOT act discourteously. The truth is, you must find a church which fits you. And sometimes, you grow out of one into another. May you find yours, Starfire. :)

67 posted on 04/06/2003 9:52:06 PM PDT by Libertina (God Bless our Commander In Chief and our Troops!)
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To: SierraWasp
LOL!

I won't build a ping list for that though!
68 posted on 04/06/2003 9:53:55 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (Where is Saddam? and where is Tom Daschle?)
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To: O.C. - Old Cracker
They all hate the father figure in their sad, pathetic lives and they've transferred that hate onto the American flag.

I've never thought of it that way, but I believe you may have a point there. My mother's father was very abusive, and my mother is a virulent, hate-filled leftist. On the other hand, I do not know my father, and I do not hate, nor am I a leftist. (Of course, taking the father out of the picture in no way guarantees a conservative child--it just worked out that way in my case.)

69 posted on 04/06/2003 9:56:01 PM PDT by exDemMom (9 out of 10 bloodthirsty tyrants agree, appeasements WORKS!)
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To: Long Cut
"George Orwell once remarked that political thought, especially on the left, is a sort of masturbation fantasy in which the world of fact hardly matters..."--Avram Noam Chomsky, 1969
70 posted on 04/06/2003 10:07:06 PM PDT by Publicus
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To: Eala
"Can you really `support the troops' while opposing the war?"

That depends on how one goes about opposing the war, I suppose. First of all, I think this line is a bunch of bullsh!t double-speak intended to deflect criticism away from the anti-war types. If you oppose the war by going out and protesting while the soldiers are fighting and dying then that is not supporting the troops. Protesters in the streets and celebrities and politicians using their access to the media to criticise the war effort are giving comfort to the enemy our troops are fighting against.

Look at what happened in Vietnam: According to remarks in the book by General Vo Nguyen Giap (Commanding General of the North Vietnamese Army) and also by Bui Tin who served on the General Staff, the Tet Offensive was considered by Hanoi to have been a failure and they were considering a conditional surrender, but the news reports from the U.S. proclaiming it a loss for the U.S. forces coupled with the protests in the streets gave the North Vietnamese the belief that they could hold on and wait for the U.S. to lose the will to fight. History proved them right. Over 20,000 U.S. soldiers died from that point until the end of the war -- how many would have lived if maybe, just maybe, the U.S. at home and abroad had showed more resolve and unity behind the war effort and the North Vietnamese had agreed to a surrender in 1968?

71 posted on 04/06/2003 10:19:22 PM PDT by AfghanAirShow
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To: Eala
Thanks for posting this. John Carlson is right on target. These two paragraphs summarize this bs re "We support our troops but are against the war and Bush."

A dirty little secret has been exposed. The core of this movement isn't anti-war; it is anti-American. And its leaders are hateful.

They hate George W. Bush, they hate free enterprise, they hate middle-America -- especially the suburbs -- they hate the cops and most of all they hate having to follow rules they don't want to follow. They have the same attitude toward America that an unruly 14-year old has toward his parents: automatic, knee jerk hostility.

72 posted on 04/06/2003 10:48:32 PM PDT by Grampa Dave (Anti America Americans are outing themselves as their side loses in Iraq!)
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To: HairOfTheDog
The claim one supports the troops while opposing the war is an insult to one's intelligence.

The Commander-In-Chief has ordered our volunteers to liberate the Iraqi people from a tyrannical, murderous regime; which has also demonstrated hostility toward the United States AND ability to develop weapons of mass destruction for use against us and others.

The war against Saddam and his Ba'athist thugs is also a defensive measure to protect the American people and American interests.

Therefore, those who oppose the endeavor IN FACT:

1. Support tyrants and terrorists;

2. Support the use of weapons of mass destruction against American citizens and others- INCLUDING those citizens serving in our armed forces and the forces of the coalition;

3. Are Anti-American.

To support our troops- and the other brave men and women comprising the coalition of over 45 countries- means advocacy of the policy that has articulated the noble objectives our troops' actions are about to achieve.

The war against Saddam and his henchmen is merely one battle in the war against terrorists their supporters- foreign and domestic.
73 posted on 04/06/2003 10:58:29 PM PDT by Publicus
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To: Colt .45
G*d bless you and thank you for your service to our Republic.
74 posted on 04/06/2003 11:10:49 PM PDT by Publicus
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To: Eala
Supporting the troops and opposing the war might be a valid argument if there were a huge number of troops who were opposed to the war and extremely bitter about being sent there. However, since almost all the troops believe that this is a just war, you cannot oppose the war and support the troops.
75 posted on 04/06/2003 11:13:52 PM PDT by Kenno
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To: dark_lord
I can. They don't give a rat's ass about the anti-war protesters. Troop morale is much more affected by (a) lack of showers, (b) running out of toilet paper, (c) getting sand in their underwear, (d) sleeping in a loud, vibrating metal can while (e) getting a layer of diesel smoke over their entire bodies, and (f) running out of cigarettes while (g) not getting hot coffee.

THAT impacts morale. But they put up with it. Its part of the job and it lets them play with all the cool toys they have trained with.


I'm afraid I couldn't disagree more regarding what truly affects troop morale. As a former grunt, I can tell you that all of the factors you laid out above are trivial. Hell, you deal with those things just on field training exercises. Our troops are not such delicate flowers that these mere inconveniences bring them down. However, seeing pictures of your own countrymen carrying banners down main street that say 'We support our troops when they shoot their officers' and other such BS is the kind of thing that can begin to affect a soldier's will to fight. Think of Vietnam and the effect on soldiers of seeing signs at home calling them baby killers. Running out of coffee or cigarettes doesn't mean a damn thing compared to that.
76 posted on 04/06/2003 11:28:04 PM PDT by fr_freak
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To: Long Cut
"As one CPO put it, "If you say that, you're essentially patting me on the head and calling me a sucker under your breath. Don't do me any favors."

Seems to say it all!

77 posted on 04/07/2003 1:23:24 AM PDT by Kathy in Alaska (God Bless America and our Military Who Protect Her.)
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To: Eaker
It's the keyboard my wife uses for her job from our house -- she's a professional typist and she's pounded the keys so hard that all the letters have been rubbed out -- just like the pounding that the coalition is doing to the Iraqi Regime.
78 posted on 04/07/2003 5:43:14 AM PDT by You Dirty Rats
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To: Anamensis
I don't Saddam was capable of becoming a superpower. We had destroyed him so thoroughly in Gulf War I, we had so many sanctions against him, we limited his ability to fly, he was under constant scrutiny. I don't think it would have happened.
79 posted on 04/07/2003 5:49:48 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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To: Colt .45
I normally refuse to be baited by mindless rants such as yours, but I have to respond.

I have never, and will never, protested in the streets with the deranged, unwashed, drugged up, filthy, socialist pond scum, college sophomores and "entertainers" that hate America. As I said, don't lump me in with that bunch.

My protestations are not against the troops, or the country. On the contrary, I object because I don't want American Marines, soldiers, airmen and sailors sent to die for someone else's war, where America has nothing to gain. The meaningless loss of American lives is a crime, in my book.

As far as what I do, I own my own business, so an "8 to 5" job is a myth. I do facilities planning for the military (primarily the Army, but have worked with the Air Force a lot, and some with the Navy). I take great pride in helping the Army spend its resources wisely, ensuring our troops and their families have top-notch facilities so they can train, work, live and play.

I fully recognize who works so hard to ensure these freedoms; it's the reason I love my job so much.

I refuse, however, to cloak stupidity and slavish adherence to a political party in patriotism. Patriotism is doing what is best for the country; it is not being a lemming to a figurehead. Especially in this country, where patriotism means so much more than in others.

I would ask you to review anything I've written and find where I've had anything negative to say about the troops or the job they are doing. You will find nothing.

80 posted on 04/07/2003 6:07:07 AM PDT by Cacophonous
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