Vegans guilty on all counts for malnourishing baby

Yahoo.com ^ | April 5, 2003

[Dianna]

I hope that they get their baby help before he is scarred for life.

My son had a nasty, awful case of eczema on his face as an infant. The Dr's INSISTED that I do nothing but keep his face clean and use a moisturizer (a steroid cream might have cleared it up faster but they said it would ruin his skin). His face didn't heal until the weather grew warm and he never had it again.

Could it be something like this?

[Pablo64]

"If soy is the culprit behind the cancers, I wonder why Asian countries do not have the highest rates of breast and prostate cancer."

Some of the research that my wife had come across indicated that it may be due to what form the soy is being used. Things like naturally fermented soy (soy sauce) and soy bean curd, are very different chemically than other "straight" soy products. There are even some countries that have banned certain soy products, including soy-based infant formulas, due to lack of complete long-term studies to see what the affects are. It is pretty thought provoking to look at all the soy estrogen supplements available on the nutrition aisle.

I also seem to recall that in general, soy products have kind of gotten a pass from the FDA as far as approvals. At one time they were not even "officially" approved as a food supplement in this country (don't know if that is still true or not) but because the soy lobby was so strong, nothing was really done about it.

I think that soy does have some very beneficial things to offer, and that we probably don't know the extent of that yet, but I don't believe (my humble opinion) that soy is the "end all and be all" of nutrition, as some would have us believe.

[Pablo64]

I understand that chemically (at the molecular level) a synthetic vitamin is exactly identicle to a "natural" vitamin (as you said, vitamin C is vitamin C, regardless). I was led to believe, however, that there were other factors to consider with naturally occuring vitamins that make their absorption rate much better (the word bio-flavinoids seems to come to mind, but I'm not sure). I was told that these elements act kind of like a "kicker" and help your body absorb the vitamin better.

I also have been told (by doctors) that most vitamins taken in pill form are what they refer to as "bowl ringers". In other words, most of the vitamin content ends up in the toilet bowl (as much as 90%) because our bodies don't absorb them very well in that form. Is there any truth to any of this, or have I been lead astray again?

[since1868]

Children need saturated fats if not there would not be any in brest milk. They also need vit. d and B12. Which can be found in brest milk.

[Illbay]

I thought about that as well, but I've gotten weary of being called a "Christian-basher" on these threads.

[since1868]

breast sorry

[Illbay]

FWIW, I don't know that these asian diets include NO MEAT. They are not "vegan" in the sense that these people practice.

I can't speak for how, for example, austere Buddhist sects practice. I wonder how a Tibetan family, for example, feeds a small child (probably breast fed for the first 24 months or so would be my guess).

These people were willfully ignorant in a sea of information. No excuse.

[cyborg]

I work in a rastafarian vegan health food store. I believe the Swintons were also rasta vegans. I do not believe that they knew what they were doing. Why? The rastas that I know take the utmost care of their children. They have the most beautiful skin, well mannered, and VERY intelligent because most homeschool their children. The children are very healthy.

Being vegan takes A LOT of careful meal planning in the early stages. If you are not careful you can deprive yourself of nutrients.

[aruanan]

I understand that chemically (at the molecular level) a synthetic vitamin is exactly identicle to a "natural" vitamin (as you said, vitamin C is vitamin C, regardless). I was led to believe, however, that there were other factors to consider with naturally occuring vitamins that make their absorption rate much better (the word bio-flavinoids seems to come to mind, but I'm not sure). I was told that these elements act kind of like a "kicker" and help your body absorb the vitamin better.

Vitamins were discovered as essential nutrients because the isolated vitamin was capable of reversing vitamin deficiency diseases. Vitamins are needed in such vanishingly small amounts that if one eats a varied diet including fruits and vegetables (and meat) sufficient to meet one's daily energy needs one will have no problem maintaining adequate vitamin levels to prevent deficiency disease unless one has a diseased small intestine and has reduced ability to absorb nutrients.

I also have been told (by doctors) that most vitamins taken in pill form are what they refer to as "bowl ringers". In other words, most of the vitamin content ends up in the toilet bowl (as much as 90%) because our bodies don't absorb them very well in that form. Is there any truth to any of this, or have I been lead astray again?

Water-soluble vitamins in excess of physiological need are excreted fairly rapidly. Some, though, like niacin, can have noticeable drug effects in large amounts. The fat-soluble vitamins A, E, D, and K are not as quickly eliminated. Though there is not much danger of toxicity from vitamin E, and while increased amounts are thought to be helpful, vitamins A and D are dangerous in large amounts.

The reason large amounts of vitamins in pills end up in the toilet is because they are taken in excess. If you notice that your pee is dark after taking a multivitamin, it's not because you're just peeing away the vitamin because you're failing to absorb it but because that's the metabolic consequence of taking riboflavin. It's been used in certain medications as a means for the doctor to verify that the patient has been compliant.

At any rate, anything you excrete has previously been absorbed. As far as doctors and nutrition are concerned, consider that throughout previous decades in all the medical schools in the United States there were only until recently a handful that required med students to take an actual course in nutrition. The University of Chicago is one of them. I helped in some of these classes. Some of the med students were genuinely interested. But there were a lot whose attitude was "let's get this thing over with so I can get back to studying real medicine". Some said as much.

[Illbay]

Hm. Do they introduce their kids to psychotropic drugs at an early age as well?

[cyborg]

Are you referring to ritalin? Unheard of. Never. I have never met a customer putting their children on drugs.

[Technogeeb]

There is NO difference between a vitamin synthesized in an animal (some animals can make vitamin C) or plant or chemical plant. And, yes, I am an expert.

Obviously, you're not, since you're unaware of the difference between methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin. As I said in my original post, I don't have anything against artificial foods; I just think the idea of avoiding a natural food (animal products) whose only healthy alternative is an artificial one is silly.

[Illbay]

Actually, I was thinking of pot.

[cyborg]

No that's stereotype. I get more American customers smoking reefer than rastas. The rastas won't smoke street reefer because it's not pure. Besides why would you think they give their children weed anyway?

[JoshGray]

My doctor, now mostly retired, was strongly against artificial vitamins. Always claimed they lacked the proper enzymes and proteins and what-all required to properly and efficiently metabolize them. He wasn't anti-drug in any way, just didn't believe in vitamin pills or dietary supplements for normal, healthy people.

[Illbay]

I don't know; I just wondered.

My understanding is that smoking ganja is part of their religious observance.

If that's incorrect, then I was misinformed.

[Illbay]

Thanks for the update. I had assumed that "radical" Buddhists (you know, the kind depicted in the Brad Pitt flick Seven Years In Tibet, who wouldn't even dig in the ground for fear of hurting earthworms) would be "vegans."

However, I don't claim to know anything about them.

[Illbay]

Besides, soy is unAmerican.

Ha! Better tell the farmers that! They have millions of acres planted in soybeans!