Posted on 04/03/2003 6:25:58 PM PST by honway
A Maryland minister was barred from giving the opening prayer in the state Senate after he refused to drop a reference to Jesus.
The Rev. David N. Hughes of the Trinity and Evangelical Church of Adamstown, Md., intended to round out his invocation yesterday with the line, "In Jesus' name, Amen." But the sergeant at arms – on the orders of Senate President Thomas Mike Miller Jr. – shut the reverend out of the body's chambers.
Miller issued the orders after two Jewish lawmakers threatened to stage a boycott of the legislative session if the phrase was not removed.
"I'm shocked by the response. I've never had this happen in 26 years," Hughes told the Frederick News-Post. "It just makes me feel that they've taken away my right as an American to pray, and this is the seat of government, and that's scary."
The pastor – a Vietnam veteran – was invited to give the prayer by Republican Sen. Alex Mooney. Hughes was Mooney's fourth guest. The other three were Jewish rabbis.
Opening up legislative sessions with prayer is a longstanding tradition in Maryland, as it is in states across the country. Mooney told WorldNetDaily no one had been barred from giving an invocation before. He sees irony in yesterday's "censorship."
Maryland state Republican Rep. Alex Mooney
"We were the first state to address religious tolerance in our state charter," he told WorldNetDaily. "This just shows a lack of tolerance for peoples' religious views."
Mooney recalled numerous instances of invocations referencing Jesus throughout the four years that he has been in office.
But at the beginning of the session this year, a string of invocations by Baptist preachers invoking the name Jesus Christ sparked debate on the issue. Miller appealed to lawmakers for tolerance and urged they stick to guidelines that call for invocations to be of an ecumenical nature and respectful of all faiths.
Webster's New World Dictionary defines ecumenical as "promoting cooperation or better understanding among differing religious faiths."
Since the debate, the Senate clerk screens prayers ahead of time and flagged the written text submitted by Hughes.
When Sens. Ida Ruben and Gloria Hollinger – both of whom are Jewish – heard of the reference, they asked Mooney to strike it.
"I said, 'Hey, I'll let him pray however he wants to pray. I'm not going to censor him and tell him how he needs to pray,'" Mooney told WND.
Ruben told the Frederick News-Post she then urged Hughes to substitute "messiah" for Jesus, telling him the reference could offend non-Christians and goes against the guidelines.
Neither Ruben nor Miller returned calls seeking comment.
"This is part of my faith," Hughes responded, according to Mooney. "The Gospel says when you pray, pray in Jesus' name."
The senators next asked to be excused from the floor during the prayer.
Paradoxically, a walk-out over a Muslim cleric's prayer opening a Washington state legislative session last month backfired on one Christian lawmaker.
Washington state Republican Rep. Lois McMahan
As WorldNetDaily reported, Rep. Lois McMahan, a Republican from Gig Harbor, Wash., refused to participate in the prayer and declared, "My god is not Muhammed."
"The Islamic religion is so ... part and parcel with the attack on America. I just didn't want to be there, be a part of that," she said in an interview with the Seattle Post Intelligencer. "Even though the mainstream Islamic religion doesn't profess to hate America, nonetheless it spawns the groups that hate America."
But a day later, McMahan apologized on the floor of the state House of Representatives amid mounting furor over her stance.
Debate over invocations is raging elsewhere in the country. As WorldNetDaily reported, several Southern California cities are grappling with threats from both sides of the issue.
Under pressure from the American Civil Liberties Union to quit using the name Jesus Christ in invocations, the city of Lake Elsinore, in Riverside County, decided to eliminate mention of "religious figures." The decree subsequently had the apparent effect of eliminating the prayer altogether, as no local pastors would accept invitations to deliver the prayer, and city councilors adopted moments of silence instead.
The ACLU contends that praying at the request of a government entity is a violation of the First Amendment's prohibition against the establishment of religion.
But the nonprofit United States Justice Foundation, which threatened to sue the city if it failed to reverse its decision, maintains telling a pastor what to pray is a violation of his First Amendment rights to freedom of speech and religion.
The notion of "separation of church and state" is derived from the dissenting opinion of the 1946 Supreme Court case Everson vs. Board of Education, which upheld a program allowing parents to be repaid from state funds for the costs of transportation to private religious schools. The court required only that the state maintain neutrality in its relations with various groups of religious believers.
"The decision in Everson does not rise to the level of being a battle cry for those who would wish to remove every vestige of religion from the public forum," USJF litigation counsel Richard Ackerman asserts.
"There's a push in this country to remove religion from society," Mooney echoed, "from the Supreme Court's decision on the Pledge to the ACLU going after all the Ten Commandments posted across the country. ... Nothing in the church-state relationship allows censorship and the removal of religious values from society."
Why isn't it their job to be the tolerant ones? Did they post or publish their tendancy to swoon at the mention of Jesus' name somewhere publically? And was their sensitive condition known to the good minister?
This is garbage.
They were neither harmed, offended or damaged in any way. They are cheap, left-wingers who are doing their bit to strip all mention of God, Christianity and religion from American life. Humoring these hags is not tolerance...it's capitulation. It's backing down ONCE AGAIN when religion is attacked.
The only element that protects these spiritual bulimics from the bigotry and anti-semitism that has covered the planet, is the Christian ethic that formed this country. If the non-religious Jewish Left is successful in removing Jesus Christ and his amazing love from American culture...there will be nothing and no one left to protect them. That's paraphrasing Dennis Prager, conservative Jew.
The responsibility for tolerance rested securely on the shoulders of the women.
I am still witing for an answer from either of you to my questions which neither of you seem able or inclined to answer. Maybe when you get along a little further.
So when the Christian prays he is to ignore his LORD Christ were He says "I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. " and "I tell you truth, My Father will give you whatever you ask in my name." Is the Christian also to ignore Paul when he says "And whatever you do whether in WORD or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." A Christian has a personal relationship with Christ his savior and when offering up prayer it is always in Jesus' name. God bridged the gulf that separates us from Him by sending His Son Jesus to die on the cross and pay the penalty for our sins.
How am I supposed to know,that was yesterday!!Oh,wait a minute,that "is" yesterday? Whatever,good-night and God bless you and yours.
WHICH God?
What is true is true whether or not you or i wish it so.
I cannot hear you because you are insisting on loud actions also. 'Pod
do the other religions deny the divinity of Christ?....yup
If the light of Christ isnt in them, what is?......darkness
God allows me to hate evil
Psalm 97:10 Let those who love the LORD hate evil, for he guards the lives of his faithful ones and delivers them from the hand of the wicked.
Proverbs 1:22 "How long will you simple ones [ 1:22 The Hebrew word rendered [ simple ] in Proverbs generally denotes one without moral direction and inclined to evil. ] love your simple ways? How long will mockers delight in mockery and fools hate knowledge?
Proverbs 8:13 To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech.
Amos 5:15 Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts. Perhaps the LORD God Almighty will have mercy on the remnant of Joseph.
Zechariah 8:17 do not plot evil against your neighbor, and do not love to swear falsely. I hate all this," declares the LORD .
Luke 6:22 Blessed are you when men hate you, when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil, because of the Son of Man.
John 3:20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
John 7:7 The world cannot hate you...
Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
clearly - a Christian can hate evil as long as they do not conspire against those who perpetrate it.
Id caution your inclusiveness of other faiths
Revelation 3:15 I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other!
Revelation 3:16 So, because you are lukewarm–neither hot nor cold–I am about to spit you out of my mouth.
God bless!
I understand. Thanks for the clarification.
YOu are as good in denying reality as Democrats. That is your prrogative. But now you accused me of dishonesty, and I take offense at that.
You don't even practice civility, let alone Christianity.
I believe Israel and America are The Chosen People.
With all due respect, after spending on this thread several hours, I cannot contribut much more. But, perhaps, you could read #431 of mine.
You are right that if one progressed TOO FAR in the direction of inclusiveness, there is a danger of diluting the meaning of one's belief. I would not ever expect that from my Christian friends; in fact, I would earge them to remain steadfast in their beliefs ---- especially because of the PC climate and anti-Christian attacks from the elites.
The question is that of balance, and it is not unique to the religion. One's courage can become recklessness; patience turn into cowardice; assertiveness into egotism. What differentiates them is (i) the degree and (ii) circumstances.
Even within Christianity there are divisions and even within the same denomination there are regional differences. Does that mean Christians of, say, Greek Orthodox persuation and Catholics cannot find a single prayer on which they agree? If they do, the benefit is clear: friendship, unity, and more trust among people; most importantly, they both stand on the same side against the Leftist, atheistic crowd.
If they do find one prayer that, while not addressing the full deapth of belief for either side, does not offend either side -- does that mean they betray their heritage? Of course not.
In our country, chaplains (including the congressional one) and other clergy routinely find such unifying prayer. This minister did not. That is all I said.
Now, GIVEN that this happened, what should the reaction be. Without a doubt, not only I would not walk out as these senators did (I am also Jewish), I would note but overlook whatever words were disturbing. These senators did not act as Jews: they acted as atheis leftists --- who may be from Jewish families as an accident of birth but themselves are no longer Jews.
So, there are two sides to the story. On this thread, I immediately blamed the senators for not overlooking the transgresssion against the protocol. But I also qwuestioned the wisdom of the minister. It is at that point where all h-ll broke loose. As you can see from the post of Dense Messa, if she tolerates someone saying "hello" to her in a foreign language (shalom in Hebrew), then someone must be tolerant to join her in her prayers. Just one example of something that I find extreme and disturbing. In sum, I ask (do not say, but ask), "Can we find some common ground," and in response hear, "H-ll no, these are my beliefs; you want common ground ---come to my side."
Not all form of unity is a sellout to policital correctness, and I am sorry to see that many people fail to see that.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. Have a good Easter holiday, if I do not see you before then.
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