[Timesink]

This is from The Times of London, a relatively conservative broadsheet owned by Rupert Murdoch. My question is simple: Should we believe this story?

[NautiNurse]

marines with orders to shoot anything that moved.

doubtful

[kinghorse]

“The Iraqis are sick people and we are the chemotherapy,”

Perfectly stated.

[RAY]

WAr is hell! So Sad, but the troops have to protect themselves.

[Hacksaw]

Next news item: The Sidewalk Of Death.

[parcel_of_rogues]

"Suddenly, some of the young men who had crossed into Iraq with me reminded me now of their fathers’ generation, the
trigger-happy grunts of Vietnam."

Can you say "AGENDA" boys and girls?

[TheLooseThread]

No.

"Pinned down, the marines fired back with 40mm automatic grenade launchers..."

Either they were "pinned down" or they were firing their weapons. Can't be both.

He says they were "caught off guard" but talks about how much time they spent planning the operation. They were concerned about "ambush alley" ahead of time. Yet he argues they were "surprised".

Most of the "meat" of what his points are based on magical insight into what the marines were thinking: "shell shocked"? "fearful"? "unexpected"? He can read mindes?

Could they have shot at cars coming over a bridge in battle, that had civilians. Of course. Did the marines want to kill civians. Of course not.

[Polybius]

A lorry filled with sacks of wheat made the fatal mistake of driving through US lines. The order was given to fire. Several AAVs pounded it with a barrage of machinegun fire, riddling the windscreen with at least 20 holes. The driver was killed instantly.

Yes. It's a war crime.......by the Iraqi regime.

The suicide bomber of a few days ago was not sent out in an Iraqi military vehicle. He was sent out as a civilian taxi driver in violation of the Rules of War and Tarik Aziz praised that tactic.

The Rules of War prohibit the masquerading as civilians precisely because it's use makes every civilian a potential combatant.

How were U.S. forces suppossed to know if that truck driving through When it exploded within our lines? Now thanks, to the tactics deliberatly chosen by Iraqi regime,we can't tell what vehicle is civilian and which vehicle is an Iraqi unlawful combatant.

If they survive this war, Tark Aziz and all those who blurred the line between Iraqi civilians and combatants need to be tried by military tribunal and hung as war crimminals.

[expatpat]

The Times in England is a very respected, somewhat-conservative newspaper. This account of an incident which apparently took place about a week ago is probably pretty accurate. When troops see their buddies blown to pieces they naturally become less likely to bend over backwards re civilians. The order you refer to was undoubtedly locally generated in the heat of battle, to save further US lives.

[King David]

This is probably a true story, but even it were just Iraqi propaganda, then Saddam would just be following the instructions of Peter Arnet. After all, aren't we all supposed to lose our will to fight once it's determined that we are targeting innocent women and children?

Arnet has just given a green light to murder even more of his citizens. I hope Atnet is in the way of a smart bomb.

[The Great Satan]

This is from The Times of London, a relatively conservative broadsheet owned by Rupert Murdoch.

The Sunday Times is, or at least was last time I read it, a leftist rag on a par with The Guardian and The Observer. This pieces stinks of Fisk.

[steplock]

Let's see, if there were any weapon, they would have been removed by the Marines. If there were any weapon not removed and in site, this reporter would not have "seen" them.

I saw nothing about the iraqui 'guerilla' style of hiding behind women, children - using them as human shields.

yes, there is a possibility, very slight, of mistaken shooting, but apparantly you people do NOT know about the training a Marine goes through.

The Marines are extremely disciplined and even IF one person fired, the rest would not be firing indiscriminately at unknown targets that were NOT firing back.

[San Jacinto]

Should we believe this story?

It's hard to tell what may be factual and what is made up. It is obvious, though, that the story is written at a very emotional level and is meant to portray a particular agenda. Clearly, the story cannot be taken at face value.

When the more clear eyed depiction of the battle of Nasiriya is told, it will reveal an engagement with light casualties on our side caused mainly by enemy treachery, big losses for the Iraqis, and some civilians killed as a result of the enemy's tactics. It won't matter what color the friggin' sunset was, or who carried what pictures in their billfold.

[Conspiracy Guy]

I can't put my finger on it but something seems wrong with the story. However if it is true I can see how it could happen. Probably a crossfire incident.

[SGCOS]

THE light was a strange yellowy grey and the wind was coming up, the beginnings of a sandstorm.

How did he see so much with so much detail in a sandstorm?

This sounds like something out of a Dale Brown novel.

[earonthief]

Parts of the story are true. The rest has been "refurbished" to make a more compelling read. The journalist just "missed" the good stuff and needed to "redeem" himself.

[cardinal4]

I dont know. Keep in mind, both the 101st and the Marines have taken fire from Iraqi Soldiers in civilian clothing....

[The Old Hoosier]

It's well-written and sourced. I'd believe it.

[El Gato]

If you read the story carefully, the only "civilians" reported shot by the US forces was a woman who was clearly aiding an RPG gunner and the vehicle carrying the sacks of wheat. Even that is heresay, the reporter didn't see it. The vehicle, while probably civilian, could have easily been another homicide bomber, those sacks of wheat could have been sandbags hiding who knows what.

Never mentioned is the distinct possibility that most of the civilians dead by the side of the road where killed by the Iraqi paramilitaries/irregulars, who have a long history of doing just that. That sort of thing apparently has been seen first hand by reporters with the UK forces around Basra. As I read the maps, most of the area to the south of Baghdad, where most of the action is taking place,nearlly all until the last few days, and even then still "most", is majority Shiite. The Iraqi paramilitaries and the rst of Saddamitte, who are mostly Sunni, have never shown any mercy (to say the least) to the southern Shiites, be they city dwellers in Basra, or "marsh arabs" of the now drained marshs south along the Shat Al Arab (sic) (the waterway formed by the confluence of the Tigress and Euphradies rivers near Basra).

[tictoc]

Sad :-(

[Squantos]

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