Hundreds of Iraqis killed in four-day battle for Kifl (3rd Infantry UPDATE)

Reuters AlertNet ^ | 29 Mar 2003 19:45:36 GMT | By Kieran Murray

[Redcloak]

The officers said the tank unit fired two 120 mm high velocity depleted uranium rounds straight down the main road, creating a powerful vacuum that literally sucked guerrillas out from their hideaways into the street, where they were shot down by small arms fire or run over by the tanks.

Now that is a novel battle tactic!

[struwwelpeter]

Careful!

If Bill Clinton finds out about "powerful vacuums sucking people in the street" he way try to hog in on all the glory.

[pttttt]

The officers said the tank unit fired two 120 mm high velocity depleted uranium rounds straight down the main road, creating a powerful vacuum that literally sucked guerrillas out from their hideaways into the street, where they were shot down by small arms fire or run over by the tanks.

Neat if true (sounds a little too good to be).

[FredZarguna]

The officers said the tank unit fired two 120 mm high velocity depleted uranium rounds straight down the main road, creating a powerful vacuum that literally sucked guerrillas out from their hideaways into the street

That giant sucking sound you hear is the reporter's reputation going straight down the toilet.

[Illbay]

Of course.

[stanz]

Like shooting fish in a barrel. I have handgun experience, but I would give anything to be standing there with an M16 or whatever the current technology is when these bastards got flushed out.

[FredZarguna]

Don't belive even Monica has an aperture than can clear 120 mm.

[Mark Felton]

I've seen these rounds fired over open ground. They leave a dust trail over ground and plants and trees all bend in the vicinity.

If a round is fired down a narrow street or alley then that suction would be magnified certainly. Still, that much though?

[Seattle]

My nephew-in-law is a tank driver. We were out salmon fishing last summer and he was telling us how the depleted uranium shells kill tanks.

He said they puch a 2 to 3 inch hole through the tank and the occupants and everything else inside are sucked out through the exit hole by the incredible vacuum created. What a way to go!

[LS]

This got moved to "Chat," but you all might find it interesting:

ENDGAME---My Perception of the "Plan"

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/879184/posts

[Calamari]

Well, so much for Reuters credibility.

[guitfiddlist]

Must be that new M1-B2 "Hoover" tank.

[jackbill]

Now that's a heavy duty vacuum!!!

It's a new weapon, called the Oreck gun. Actually, if you put bowling balls on the front of the tank, they'll get sucked down the street behind the shell.

I suppose they are having supply problems and have run out of bowling balls.

[Congressman Billybob]

The writer of this has zero understanding of physics, and near zero understanding of military armament. A 120-mm round fired down the middle of a street will not "suck people out of doorways." Something the size of an Atlas rocket, travelling horizontally, might have that effect, but not a tank shell.

Secondly, American tanks and artillery units do not routinely fire "depleted uranium" shells. These are the heaviest and most expensive rounds that we possess. They are used for a specific purpose -- penetrating the sides of enemy tanks or other armored vehicles. They have no other military application. In all other circumstances, depleted uranium shells are LESS effective, not more effective, for the purpose at hand.

Just to use one obvious example in urban warfare: Assume the bad guys are firing through the windows of a brick building. A DU round fired at that target will go through the front wall and then through the back wall, without harming anyone inside, unless they are directly in the way of the shell. A standard, steel-jacketed explosive shell, on the other hand, will take out the front wall, and maybe cause the building to collapse. Any of the enemy who survive that, can then be dealt with by use of 50-caliber machine gun fire.

The writer apparently read somewhere about DU shells, and therefore uses the term in his article as a "bad-*ssed" weapon. Here's how those puppies actually work. Because of their weight and density, a DU shell in a direct hit can punch a small hole -- maybe as little as a half-inch circle -- through to the inside of the armor of even the most modern and well-armored tanks that any potential enemy possesses. What comes through that hole is a small amount of liquid uranium, melted by the heat of the impact and penetration.

Although uranium requires very high heat to liquify, once it reaches that point it burns as smartly as aluminum. The inside of the tank becomes a fireball. Its own ammunition is set off, which causes the explosion that occurs AFTER the DU round has penetrated the tank. In firing on a building, all that penetrating power is self-defeating. But the dummy writing this article didn't have a clue about this, obviously.

Congressman Billybob

Latest column, now up on UPI, and FR, "The A-MAA-zing War Wizard"

Latest book(let), "to Restore Trust in America."

[marktwain]

These people have no more idea how to fight than the Plains Indians in the Nineteenth Century American West, who thought hitting a horse-soldier with a coup stick was the ultimate in bravery--then he got shot right off his horse.

The plains Indians knew how to fight, and much better than this. Man for man, they were better than our cavalry. There just were not very many of them, and they did not have our logistics support. That doomed them. Eventually, all the smart one signed treaties or surrendered. There are probably more Indian genes in America today than there were in 1870. My kids have some of them.

[1stFreedom]

That's a load of bullshit. A DU Sabot round would not create a vacuum. The sabot round does not explode either, so there is no vacuum from any explosion.

The rounds are basically high speed burning darts.

[Redcloak]

That "main street" is probably what the rest of the world would call an ally. Lighting off a 120mm gun in an ally would certainly knock a man over. It could also been that the men in the ally tensed as the round went off. This could have been the force that pushed them into view. As a point of reference, I once shot a muledeer broadside. The animal was facing up a somewhat steep incline. When the round hit, he flipped over backward so that he landed with his head pointing downhill. It wasn't the force of the round (.44 Mag) hitting him that caused him to flip. He flipped over at a right angle to the force of the bullet. It was his muscles tensing that threw his front end over. The same thing could have happened here. They may have literally jumped into the street.

Clearly more experimental data is required. I'm sure that the Iraqis will oblige.

[marktwain]

I know something of Physics and ballistics, and have done quite a bit of work with the people who develope these munitions. This is wishful thinking or exaggeration. We fire 120 mm rounds through cloth targets, and the targets don't get "sucked in".

[11th_VA]

I think the folks at Aberdeen are probably getting ready to recreate this right now ...

[Calamari]

But the guerrilla-style forces were vastly outgunned by the tanks.....

Then don't bring a pickup truck to a tank fight.