Astronomers Deal Blow To Quantum Theories Of Time, Space, Gravity

Space Daily ^ | Huntsville - Mar 28, 2003 | Editorial Staff

[Windcatcher]

I think one of my grad school professors may have shown this to us. It totally blew me away.

[Eastbound]

" Time is nothing more than measurement relative to observation."

Durn! Guess I'll have to trade in my watch for a tape measure now.

Boss: "Hey, Mort! You're two feet late for work."

Mort: "Sorry, Boss. My son left my tape measure at the drag strip."

[Doctor Stochastic]

It's still an interesting question. One uses the cat to amplify the uncertainty of radioactive decay. The interesting part is to describe how a small, random, quantum effect can be converted into a classical situation.

[boris]

"Time is caused by the fact that things don't all happen at once."

Things not happening all at once are caused by time.

Barbour thinks space time is an 'arena' in which events are embedded. "Things happening' are events. In Barbour's view--as far as I (mis)understand it, all possible configurations of events in what we call 'space time' are already present in the 'arena'.

Part of my difficulty with Barbour is that his argument seems somewhat circular--it seems to imply an 'instruction pointer' or 'moving finger' that selects events in some sequence. But a sequence presupposes time--or so I suppose.

Slippery as Mach's Principle.

--Boris

[AMDG&BVMH]

"The more I 'study' time, the more confused I become. There is a deep mystery here. I wonder if humans can ever discover the true nature of time."

It has always been a mystery, I guess. Stephen Hawkings once thought time was reversible. At the sub-atomic level, it would seem to be. But it just isn't. Time is merely progression or existence of matter in the material world. I.E. atoms wiggling; but they can't wiggle to "backwards" to "reverse" time at the macroscopic level. (Because of entropy). Time is an aspect of the Universe and when the Universe ceases to exist, so will time as we know it. Outside the Universe, i.e. at the God's eye view, there is no time and everything does happen "at once." I.E. all "time" since the beginning of the Universe is accessible at the same "time." The space twin experiement of relativity basically predicts the same concept of eternity that St. Augustine had.

[boris]

"Time is nothing more than measurement of abritrary events, the movement of a second hand from 1 to 10, the duration of one event to another."

How can you define time without appealing to time?

"Movement" implies change in time. In other words, the velocity of the second hand is the first derivative of position with respect to time. So defining time as a 'measurement of movement' is circular.

--Boris

[DarthFuzball]

Does this mean that that guy who says he traveled in time actually did?

Actually it means that the guy who says he traveled in time will have been going to be considered a liar.

[Capitalism2003]

I think this stuff is amazing...space being bent..time being relative...makes my brain hurt...that's why I like it.
You sound like you know stuff about physics.
Hypothetical Question: If someone were to construct a perfect cube container...absolutely symmetrical on each side...and if someone were to construct this box with perfectly polished mirrors are placed on the inner sides...and a flash bulb was inserted into the box...the lid (also a mirror) firmly closed...then *POOF*
The bulb flashes...
Question: What happens to the light? Does it keep bouncing around off the symmetrical mirrors forever? It has no means of escaping the box. Where else can it possibly go?
Wouldn't this create an everlasting light source? :)


I got this idea a few months ago...I think if someone could make one of these boxes with two sided mirrors..ya know, the kind you can see through on one side, with a normal mirror on the other side...If someone can make the cube out of this stuff and flash the light from the inside...wouldn't it be an infinite light source?
Sure, it would probably cost a few thousand to make each cube, but after the initial flash...No electric bills...EVER!;) Can I patent the idea? I may get to it someday..

[AMDG&BVMH]

Re:"The interesting part is to describe how a small, random, quantum effect can be converted into a classical situation."

Let me know when you figure it out ;).

However, we know that the classical situations exist and basically still follow the laws of classical physics. Thank goodness, so that engineers can use Newtonian physics for civil engineering, I guess.

So that whatever happens at the quantum level, it does not mess up "reality" as we know it.

And QM does not actually posit that particles behave wierdly at the quantum level. We merely use statistical means to describe their (gross) behavior. That does not imply that particles do not follow some rules of which we are unaware. We call their behavior random because we use statistical means to describe and predict them. Just because queuing theory "predicts" when you and I and dozens of our fellows will appear at the bank in line in the aggregate, does not mean that you and I and the others do not have actual "reasons" for going to the bank when we do. It is just that the bank cannot model that ;)

[Windcatcher]

You sound like you know stuff about physics.

I have a masters' in Physics. As to your question, it wouldn't work. First, it's not possible to produce mirrors that are *exactly* perfect, both in smoothness and flatness, and the air would at the very least cause the light to be scattered. Also, dust and corrosion would degrade the mirrors' efficiency, and the *instant* something was placed in the path of the light (otherwise, what's the point to it all), it's game over--the light gets absorbed.

[boris]

"I got this idea a few months ago...I think if someone could make one of these boxes with two sided mirrors"

There are no perfect mirrors. Every mirror absorbs a small amount of the light it reflects. Very quickly, the light in your box will all be absorbed and converted to heat.

=====================

Mirrors can be made very "good", i.e., very reflective for a single wavelength or set of wavelengths. They are still never 100% reflective.

--Boris

[longshadow]

I wonder if humans can ever discover the true nature of time.

"Time is the because with which some dolls are stuffed." - e e cummings

[Capitalism2003]

ah shoot...so even a hubble-quality mirror wouldn't work?..even if the box was a vaccum with no air in it?...It wouldn't even for a little while? ;)

well, it was worth a thought.

[Doctor Stochastic]

The QM particles really do a few weird things though. Tunneling is one. The two slit experiment gives some strange behavior. One use really weak beams of light for the two slits so that only one photon per hour goes through. Or even one per day. How does that first photon "know" to set up an interference with the second which may not even show up at all if the lights go off?

The randomness in QM is different from that in ordinary situations. The lack of marginal distributions is the biggest diffence (at least to me) in QM probability and ordinary probability.

[LiteKeeper]

read later

[rolling_stone]

Does this mean I have to have my tax return done on April 15 or not?

[djf]

RE: The Kaluza/Klein work. If the general theory in 5 dimensions yields items that are more indicative or I guess you might say global in their description of reality, then it would seem to be more complete. I wasn't indicating that the general theory was wrong, more in a sense that it becomes an aproximation, just as Einstein showed Newtonian theory to be an aproximation. But there is no question that Bell's work contradicts Al, indeed it's somewhat funny, because Bells inequalities uncovers a sort of epistemology of physics that is almost falling back towards ether and universal time.

[boris]

"Time is the because with which some dolls are stuffed." - e e cummings

"Time is the school in which we learn, time is the fire in which we burn."-- Delmore Schwartz

[djf]

You thinks thats weird. Some reputable places are doing studies on RPK. Reverse psychokinesis. Changing the past. And it does not seem to be violating any theories.

[happygrl]

A fun read. Thanks.