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Partner, you could not be more wrong or more out of line! You insult Viet vets and you insult draftees:

"Well, then I'm stupid like Donald Rumsfeld, because I see it precisely the way that he did.

The huge difference is that way too many of our military in that day were conscripts. Perhaps you were NOT a conscript (and I hope you wore your uniform proudly)."

Have you ever served? Being in the field is not being on the parade ground.

I wonder how many of the troops you saw in "the old newsreels" not meeting YOUR standards for uniformity in the combat zone were decorated for valor or just never made it home??? Please think about that!

Draftees or conscripts have proudly and valorously served this country throughout its history. In fact, I'd suggest bringing the draft back for no other reason than get some of these spoiled brats in uniform and teach them that the freedom they enjoy is NOT free.

Have you ever served? Being in the field is not being on the parade ground.

Ahem. What has this got to do with anything?

Look at our guys. You don't see them dressed like they're p*ssed off to be where they are.

They are ALWAYS in full uniform, ALWAYS seemingly proud to wear it.

Are you REALLY going to tell me that all the guys you served with were "proud" to wear the uniform of the U.S. Armed Services?

Sorry, but though I was too young to be there, I knew a lot of guys in college who were old enough. I went to a liberal school in my youth, with lots of guys who were STILL p*ssed off they weren't "smart enough" to run to Canada.

They griped and griped constantly about how they were forced to be "baby killers" for the Establishment.

Perhaps you were different. Perhaps you volunteered. Perhaps you were a GOOD guy. But I'll bet you remember jerks like I met in college, as well.

GUESS WHICH IS 'NAM AND WHICH IS IRAQ?

Illbay also manages to insult somebody whenever he posts, and focusses on the negatives instead of the positives.

He's a curmudgeon, better ignored.

I notice that he did not respond to your point about those received decorations, or death, for their sevice in Viet Nam.

One of the posts on this thread points out that leadership sets the example; something the guys in Nam were woefully short on.

It's easy for those who didn't live throught those years and the trashing that our men in Nam received, to appreciate the loss of morale it generated.

Potshots are easy; soldiering is real work.