Posted on 03/27/2003 8:26:19 AM PST by Luis Gonzalez
In the 1870's and 1920's, the Klan was a mass movement with a huge number of members. The vast majority of members would never have directly engaged in killing. But they participated in creating a climate of approval for such acts
That's been part of one of my standard rants for many months now. Maybe a year.
We're dealing with an evil, totalitarian, dictatorial, murderous political system masquerading as a religion. Just the treatment of women in Islamic societies should tell you all you need to know about this "culture". Add in their intolerance of non-believers, and it becomes obvious what a rational tolerance policy might look like.
Personally, I will become tolerant of Islam when there are churches and synagogues in Mecca, Medina, Riyadh, Islamabad, Karachi, Cairo, Khartoum, and similar locales, and the locals aren't trying to burn down the structures and kill the attendees.
Until then, they should not be considered a religion.
When people are talking about prosecuting and persecuting American Muslims who have done absolutely NOTHING to harm the country, and suspending the First Amendment in order to force them into either converting, or suffering consequences, it creates the exact scenario in the Quor'an that calls for Muslims to fight the oppressors to the death.
Those who advocate such behavior, on either side of the conflict, are nothing more than bin Laden's puppets.
We engage bin Laden, and those who provide him with money and support now.
We do not attack Muslims in the Phillipines because they are Muslims, and we certainly DO NOT attack the First Amendment in order to persecute innocent bystanders here at home, because once that Amendment is violated, it can never be fully restored.
It is difficult to respect a "religion" which was started by a guy very much like Mitchell aka Emmanual of the Smart case ---a pedophile polygamist, one from Arabia, one from Utah. Mohammed had a little 6 year old girl he called one of his wives. It's my decision to have more respect for religions like Voodoo than I have for Islam.
I agree with that ---if I have one neighbor who is into Voodoo and another who is into Islam, as long as they leave me alone and aren't committing crimes, it's all the same to me. I wouldn't necessarily have to respect either religion, I don't expect my government to establish one or the other or both, I wouldn't harass either neighbor but because of recent events I would be keeping my eye on the Islamic.
I have seen grown men, Christian born, convert to Islam. I have seen normal, friendly men turn into John Q. Muslim. In only a matter of weeks did John Q. Muslim become distant, a vacant look in his eyes rapidly replacing a fire that once shown there.
I see this in a co-worker who only last year married a Muslim. It is as though we who are Christian are being looked upon as something to wipe his feet on.
I do not like the change in John Q. Muslim.
I also think that Mark Fidel Kools had this same look in his eyes the night he threw grenades into the tents of his fellow servicemen.
Until the day John Q. Muslim decides to draw that line in the sand and stand with the rest of the normal people on this earth, who do not see mass murder as a sacrament, I will not trust him.
I was talking about the US, and was not talking about treating anybody as "combatants" (ie shooting them).
As far as Iraq is concerned, we could (and should) persue a policy of "de-Baathification" like our de-Nazification policies in post-war Germany. This would include no Baathists being allowed in any political office or position of trust or influence. And no Baathist being eligible for getting any rebuilding aid. We should strip them of any ability to exercise power or influence in post-war Iraq
In the US, Islamists should be stripped of any anti-discrimination protections. If a business owner is not comfortable about hiring Islamists, he shouldn't have to. If a building owner is uncomfortable about having Islamists on his property, he should not be forced to rent to them. Islamist immigrants should be deported back to country of origin, especially if they're leaching off welfare or engaging in any sort of anti-American activism
"In the US, Islamists should be stripped of any anti-discrimination protections."
For what reason?
The Klan was made up of Christians, should we have persecuted all Christians?
BTW, how would an employer be able to differentiate between a Christian and a Muslim Egyptian?
I have an idea that I think you will like, we can make them all wear one of these on their coats all the time se we can tell them apart.
"I will become tolerant of Islam when there are churches and synagogues in Mecca, Medina, Riyadh, Islamabad, Karachi, Cairo, Khartoum, and similar locales."
Fair enough.
Egyptian Passover FolkloreAt Cairo's Shaarei Hashamayim Synagogue |
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After a few minutes, two policemen sitting in a patrol car called us over. Where are you from? one of them asked my husband. America, my husband answered. Are you married? Yes. Do you have children? No. You should drink more pineapple juice. Thank you. So we got family planning advice as well as directions into the building. The entrance turned out to be at the back of the synagogue and accessible by an alleyway. My husband and I walked back and knocked at the gate. The caretaker, wearing a brown robe and a small tourban, invited us into a small, dusty courtyard. We all introduced ourselves, and the caretaker graciously obliged our request for a tour. As the caretaker put his hand on the synagogue's front door knob, I noticed that a panel on the door was shaped like a palm tree, just like the carvings in the outer stone walls. We stepped from the bright Cairo sunlight into an unlit room filled with dark wood furnishings. As my eyes adjusted to the dim light, palm trees emerged everywhere I looked. On the bema, the arms of two large menorot stretched out in the shapes of palm branches. The dark wooden front doors of the ark were graced with carved palm trees, as were cabinet doors throughout the room. On the light blue walls, a painted border of gold palm trees, brown stone tablets and blue Stars of David encircled the room. The caretaker said that [Note: Passover dinner conversation starter begins here:] according to traditional lore of Cairo's Jewish community, after the Israelites fled Egypt during the Exodus, the manna that God sent in the desert fell from trees. [End of Passover dinner conversation starter.] Then the caretaker told us what kind of tree yielded the manna: Sanobar. That was not the answer I expected. Sanobar? Na'am, he answered in Arabic, yes, sanobar. I did not understand. I understood the word well enough. "Sanobar" was one of the dozen Arabic words I happened to know. It means "pine tree." Those were not sanobars around us. In fact, I hadn't seen sanobar one during our whole Cairo trip. Sanobar? I asked again, looking around the room and wishing I had the vocabulary to ask my question more intelligently. Na'am, he repeated, sanobar. |
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There's Cairo.
>> and the locals aren't trying to burn down the structures and kill the attendees.
From the web site of the American embassy in Egypt, we have:
Terrorist groups do not distinguish between official and civilian targets. Recent attacks on worshippers at a church and synagogue underline the growing possibility that as security is increased at official U.S. facilities, terrorists and their sympathizers will seek softer targets. These may include facilities where Americans are generally known to congregate or visit, such as clubs, restaurants, places of worship, schools or outdoor recreation events.BTW, I found that in about 15 seconds of Googling. I'm sure I could dredge up a score, if not scores, of incidents.
"...and the locals aren't trying to burn down the structures and kill the attendees."
Babe, they mess with synagogues in Boca Raton, and I recall some serious acts of violence (including murder) in New York towards Jews.
No so very long ago, we were also bombing churches and killing little black girls in the US. Crap happens everywhere.
Violence was at the core of Klan ideology, but not part of Christian ideology. Therefore Klan members, but not non-Klan Christians, were suppressed
Violence toward non-Muslims is CENTRAL to Islamic theology. Promoting wars of conquest against infidels is CENTRAL to mainstream Islamic preaching. (Yes, there are peaceful Muslims. And I know Jews who like ham-and-cheese sandwiches and work on Saturdays.)
My comparison between Islam and the old Klan is deliberate. One CHOOSES to be a Klansman, with all that implies, just as one CHOOSES to be an Islamist. Anyone who is found to be an ideological Islamist should get the same treatment at work and in the neighborhood, as someone who is uncovered as being an active Klansman
The problem is that the radical Islamist will just as soon kill John Q. Muslim for his tolerance as kill you and me for our infidelity.
Fear is the great silencer.
"Violence toward non-Muslims is CENTRAL to Islamic theology."
That's where you are wrong. There are, like the article says, two distinct interpretations of the Quor'an.
Usama bin Laden and his ilk, promote the side that is violent, and they are distorting scripture to do it. The rest, represented by people like Kabbani(sp), the Turks, and other moderate States, do not.
You and I have no argument if we are talking about islamo-fascists, my problem is when people paint all Muslims as Islamo-fascists.
BTW, Islam has at its core, the idea that the whole world shall be Muslim one day...so does Christianity.
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My husband and I stood on a city sidewalk in Cairo, looking up at the Shaarei Hashamayim Synagogue, but we couldn't figure out how to get in. This was in 1995. We had to be in the right place; the stone face of the building had carvings of Stars of David interspersed in a row of large carved palm trees. But we couldn't find the door.
I still don't get it, but the synagogue is beautiful. If you ever find yourself in Cairo, you might want to check it out for yourself, especially if your Arabic is better than mine. It's on Adli Pasha Street. The door is in the back.