Posted on 03/26/2003 10:31:44 AM PST by Smogger
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - One report reaching the U.S. military said that some of the 12 soldiers whose supply convoy was ambushed near Nassiriya in southern Iraq on Sunday were killed by their captors although they tried to surrender, a U.S. defense official said on Wednesday. The official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the report received from the field said that the U.S. soldiers "weren't given the opportunity to surrender. They attempted to surrender." Some of the U.S. soldiers instead were killed by the Iraqi forces, the official said.
The official did not characterize the nature or reliability of the intelligence information on which this report was based. The official also did not indicate where the surrendering soldiers were slain.
Another defense official said the U.S. military had received "mixed reports" about the incident.
U.S. officials have said an Army supply convoy apparently made a wrong turn during a battle near Nassiriya, and members of an Army maintenance unit were ambushed by Iraqi "irregular forces." U.S. officials say 12 soldiers were missing.
Five U.S. soldiers being held as prisoners were shown being interrogated on Iraqi television. The dead bodies of several others also were shown on Iraqi television. Some of the bodies appeared to have bullet wounds to the forehead, suggestive of possible execution, and were shown sprawled on the floor of a room in puddles of blood.
Don't believe the *shortages* yarn. I know of at least one Defense Supply Depot with three 50-ton palletized boxcar loads of the Desert Storm-era *chocolate chip* camouflage BDUs with 475 pounds of uniforms per pallet, 200 pallets per railcar; if it were just a matter of getting the troops suitable desert camo, they'd be issuing those.
Much more likely: 4th Infantry Division and Taskforce Ironsides, at least, will remain in reserve with their equipment loaded aboard ship, just in case something eventful occurs that demands their presence elsewhere...like Korea. They're close at hand in Turkey if needed in Iraq, but they're also capable of quickly loading their troops and light equipment back on the ships and headed for anywhere else they might be needed as well.
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U.S. Troops Lack Uniforms
Friday, Jan. 24, 2003
FORT HOOD, Texas – The 16,400 troops of the Army's 4th Infantry Division might deploy for possible combat in green fatigues because they don't have enough of the sand-colored camouflage uniforms used in desert warfare. Preparations have been under way at the nation's largest Army post since Monday when orders were received. Maj. Gen. Raymond T. Odierno, division commander, says his troops are ready for their assignment, although they are short on the uniforms.
"We will deploy in our green fatigues because we don't have enough of the desert fatigues in stock for everyone in the task force," he told the Dallas Morning News. "It is my call. We want everyone to dress the same. We can clearly do our job wherever we go, no matter what uniform we're wearing."
Fort Hood officials said that the uniform shortage was only a temporary problem and that preparations were continuing for the largest deployment at Fort Hood since the Persian Gulf War.
The 4th Division, the Army's premier high-tech combat division, will head the 37,000-soldier Task Force Ironhorse. The division includes the 3rd Brigade at Fort Carson, Colo., and National Guard and Army Reserve units from across the nation.
Odierno would not disclose the division's mission or destination.
"We're not going to talk about where we're going or how long we'll be there," he said. "And I'm not into message sending. We're prepared to go anywhere to do whatever is necessary."
The 4th Division, with its Abrams tanks, Bradley fighting vehicles, and motorized howitzers, is fully digitized. Computers link the mechanized units on a high-tech tactical combat network.
"It gives us full battlefield situational awareness," said Lt. Col. Ted Martin, commander of the 1st Squadron, 10th Cavalry Regiment. "We know where our tanks and our people are, and we also can tell where the bad guys are. It's an incredible tool."
The 4th Division has been has been training at Fort Hood and the National Training Center in the Mojave Desert in California.
Troops have been inspecting and preparing heavy equipment for shipment around the clock since Monday. At the same time, soldiers have been making personal arrangement for their families as they prepare to depart in the next few weeks.
Copyright ?2001-2003 United Press International
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Fort Hood soldiers prepare to ship out to Persian Gulf
By The Associated Press
(3/23/03- FORT HOOD, Texas) — Ending weeks of frustrating indecision, about 12,500 soldiers in the Army's 4th Infantry Division stationed here are expected to begin shipping out to the Persian Gulf next week after the United States abandoned efforts to send them into northern Iraq through Turkey, U.S. defense and Army officials said Saturday.
The soldiers are likely to go to Kuwait, the officials said.
The division, considered the Army's most lethal and deployable heavy division, is the first major element to move out from Fort Hood, the nation's largest military post.
Two defense officials said Saturday that dozens of U.S. ships carrying weaponry for the division have been redirected from their holding position off Turkey's coast to the Persian Gulf.
Soldiers, many irritated that Turkey's refusal to allow U.S. troops on its soil kept them from opening a northern front into Iraq, said the news of their impending deployment was both relieving and sobering.
"It's like, OK, at last," said Maj. Josslyn Aberle, a public affairs officer for the division. "The decision has been made, the speculating is over, the waiting is over, the wondering is over. Now it's time to do our jobs."
Staff Sgt. John Garfield, 31, of Atlanta said he wasn't sure how to react to the news.
"We've been sitting around for two plus months, not knowing," Garfield said Saturday after spending the morning getting outfitted with his desert camouflage uniform. "But I guess when it comes right down to it nobody wants to go. I'm in no hurry to go and get shot at."
Spc. Amanda Kirkpatrick's hopes of avoiding the war were dashed when her squad leader called Saturday to inform her of the deployment.
"It just kind of shocked me," said Kirkpatrick, of Alvo, Neb., balancing her blond, 7½-month-old son on her hip. "I cried because I have to leave my baby and my husband."
Picking up his desert camouflage uniform from the cleaners, Sgt. Richard Smith of Tulsa, Okla. was somewhat bitter about the secondary role the 4th Infantry will likely play "this late in the game."
"It should have been us," he said of invading Iraq. "To hell with doing clean-up operations."
About 40 ships carrying the division's weaponry and equipment were to begin moving through the Suez Canal on Sunday, one of the defense officials said. Both spoke on condition of anonymity.
It also was possible that they could enter Iraq directly through the Gulf port of Umm Qasr, now under the control of British and U.S. Marines after clashes Friday with Iraqi forces.
The original plan had the entire division of about 17,500 soldiers from Fort Hood and other installations heading to Turkey, along with some Army troops based in Germany.
Since their deployment orders came through Jan. 18, soldiers in the 4th Infantry have been stuck in military purgatory. Many who hustled to put their furniture and other belongings in storage have been living out of duffel bags, left with only a few sets of clothing and perhaps a TV. Other soldiers who sent family members away to stay with relatives were left alone.
With their equipment _ tanks, armored personnel carriers, howitzers and other vehicles _ waiting on some 30 ships off the coast of Turkey, soldiers were forced to train using simulators. Many underwent training on first aid, chemical warfare, and some trained in unarmed hand-to-hand combat for the first time since basic training.
Since the war with Iraq began without them, some soldiers said they've watched TV coverage of the bombing in Baghdad and sand-blurred tanks plowing into the Iraqi desert with a tinge of envy.
"I get jealous when I see the tanks," said Spc. William Henry Staneck IV, 21, of Carrollton, Ga., wearing a 75-cent striped shirt he bought from the Goodwill store in Killeen.
With nearly everything but his TV and futon in storage, Staneck said he has spent many hours admiring the TV images of soldiers invading Iraq and thinking, "I wish I was that guy."
Spc. Cliff Crummy, 21, of Brunswick, Ga., said soldiers in the 4th Infantry have been fighting boredom and a feeling of uselessness.
"We kind of feel left out," he said. "We've got guys over there putting our lives on the line and we're just kind of sitting in the shadows waiting."
Soldiers have been through "plenty of last weekends, plenty of last suppers," with relatives as the delays drew out the painful goodbye process, said 1st Lt. Brandon Holden, 24, of Baton Rouge, La.
For Spc. Simon Valdovino, an infantryman, the delay has brought economic hardship.
Unlike soldiers whose families will remain in their homes on post, Valdovino broke the lease on his apartment in nearby Killeen and moved into a motel when the deployment orders came in, with the idea that his wife and 2-year-old son would head back to be with his parents in Merced, Calif. when he shipped out.
They're now back in a temporary apartment, and worry about the extra expenses they've incurred.
"It was pretty stressed, and we're spending a lot of money that we wouldn't have been," Valdovino said.
Still, Valdovino and other soldiers have valued the extra time they've spent with family.
Staff Sgt. Charles Henderson, 30, of Guymon, Okla., got to see his daughter get married Friday.
"I honestly figured I would miss it," he said. "I consider myself lucky I was here."
(Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)
The guy on the left IS Lieutenant General H.*Stormin'* Norman Schwartzkopf, in his *Chocolate Chip* DBDU uniform, twelve years ago and twelve years younger then.
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LMAO. I thought that was a current photo LOL!
I'm losing a lot of respect for folks who need to display our tragic losses to bolster their views.
There is nothing rational in your claim that showing photos that were shown on Iraqi TV of executed Americans (with a warning on the thread) is disrespectful. If I died like this and or if my son died like this and the image was used for propaganda by my enemy, I'd want it available to show the bankruptcy of their morality in the face of so many in denial here.
Any bets on how long after our goal is accomplished in Iraq before Clinton starts claiming that he wanted to do the same thing but the evil Republicans wouldn't let him?
Why? There is no need to abrogate Geneva and the moral high ground. The rules of engagement for uniformed Iraqi regulars should be followed to the letter vis-a-vis surrender, quarter, care, not using them as propaganda, etc. Of course if they try to off you while waving white flags, mow 'em down.
However, most of our problems are with the irregulars. They are de facto terrorists. We have no obligation to them at all under international war agreements. We need to make plain a few things to the Iraqis: if you are a civilian with weapons attempting to engage U.S. troops, you will be KILLED. If you do not follow U.S. orders in territory we are controlling, you will be KILLED. Move when you're told to move, jump when you're told to jump, line up for aid when you're told to line up for aid... but give us any cause to believe you're a guerilla and you will be KILLED.
Hopefully that'll: 1) keep pain-in-the-ass nosy civilians out of the way, and 2) make plain who Saddam's bully-boys are so they can be properly dealt with (i.e. KILLED)
Chem suits are green camo only .... plus some troops may not have been issued desert cammies yet. Took a few weeks in country during Gulf War I for me to get mine.
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