[Notwithstanding]

Liberal press twist and manipulate pope's actual words - FReepers uncharacteristically believe lieberal press.

[Notwithstanding]

25-March-2003 -- Vatican Information Service

WORK AND PRAY SO THAT THERE IS NO MORE WAR
VATICAN CITY, MAR 25, 2003 (VIS) - Made public today was a Message from the Holy Father to military chaplains who are participating today and tomorrow in a formation course on human rights in the Vatican, organized by the Congregation for Bishops and the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.

"It is precisely when arms are unleashed," writes the Pope in the Message dated March 24, "that the need becomes imperative for laws that make military operations less inhuman. Throughout the centuries, awareness of a similar need gradually grew, right up to the progressive formation of a real and proper juridic 'corpus', defined as 'international human rights law.' This 'corpus' has been able to develop thanks to the maturation of principles inherent to the Christian message."

John Paul II emphasizes that the military chaplains must bear witness that "even in the hardest of battles it is always possible, and therefore a duty, to respect the dignity of the military adversary, the dignity of civilians, and the indelible dignity of each human being involved in armed conflicts. In this way, reconciliation necessary for the reestablishment of peace after the conflict is favored."

After making reference to the present "difficult hour in history" due to the outbreak of a new war, the Pope affirms that "thinking of the victims, the destruction and the suffering caused by armed conflicts always causes great concern and pain."

"It should be clear by now that war used as an instrument of resolution of conflicts between states was rejected, even before the Charter of the United Nations, by the conscience of the majority of humanity, except in the case of defense against an aggressor. The vast contemporary movement in favor of peace - which, according to Vatican Council II, is not reduced to a 'simple absence of war' - demonstrates this conviction of men of every continent and culture."

The Holy Father highlighted "the strength of different religions in sustaining the search for peace is a reason for comfort and hope. In our view of faith, peace, even if it is the result of political accords and understanding among individuals and peoples, is a gift from God that we must constantly invoke with prayer and penance. Without a conversion of the heart there is no peace! Peace is only achieved through love! Right now we are all asked to work and pray so that war disappears from the horizon of humanity."

[kstewskis]

FReepers uncharacteristically believe liberal press.

I know my bad for not looking at the source posted on a previous thread.

Mea culpa, mea culpa.

[Nachum]

A pity the Pope didn't say a word of French Jews getting the crap kicked out of them in French Catholic schools.

[aynrandfreak]

"It should be clear by now that war used as an instrument of resolution of conflicts between states was rejected, even before the Charter of the United Nations, by the conscience of the majority of humanity, except in the case of defense against an aggressor," the Pope stressed. "The vast contemporary movement in favor of peace -- which, according to Vatican Council II, is not reduced to a 'simple absence of war' -- demonstrated this conviction of men of every continent and culture," he added.

He did seem to phrase it in a way that could be taken to show agreement with the peace movement. This is the same Pope that said that evolution wasn't necessarily at odds with Catholicism, and more recently made comments that could be interpreted as endorsing some "New Age" beliefs.

Even though I'm not a believer, I'd admire a Pope more that has the guts to tell me that I'm going to burn if I don't convert than a Pope that wants to get consensus on the matter from the "international community".

[laz17]

If the Pope cannot see that God uses human armies to vanquish evil, something which is depicted time and time again in the Bible... if he simply cannot comprehend that it is the hand of God that is directing our war against the satanic regime in Iraq, because God has decided Saddam's time is at an end... then he is a hopeless case.

[ArrogantBustard]

FReepers uncharacteristically believe lieberal press.

Unfortunately, there's nothing uncharacteristic about it. There's a contingent here ready and eager to believe anything evil, no matter how wrong or even preposterous, about the Church. They slurp up the bile from the leftist, anti-Christian (and in particular anti-Catholic) press like a dog returning to its vomit. (Obligatory Biblical reference... )

[laz17]

So the Pope wants us to pray so that there is no more war. Why doesn't he pray instead that Christ return to earth? THAT is the only time when there will be no more war -- when Christ returns to earth. And until that moment, there will be wars and rumors of wars, just as Christ Himself said. Until then, God will use human armies to destroy evil, just as He has done throughout history and just as is actually recorded in the text of the Old Testament. Has the Pope forgotten the Gospel? When was the last time he read it? Or does he now read the Koran, a satanic book which DENIES that Christ is the Son of God, and a book which he has kissed?

The Pope has lost all moral authority. He is NOT speaking from the Bible, he is speaking from his own devices. And the Bible clearly tells us WHO it is who speaks when a man speaks from his own devices. Twenty years ago, Sinead O'Connor said the Pope was the enemy. When she said that, I wanted to rip her head off. As it turns out, she was prophetic. Her words did not apply at the time and were obscene... but unfortunately, they seem to become more appropriate with every utterance from the Vatican today.

I shall no longer seek any guidance whatsoever from the Vatican. All the guidance a true Christian needs is in the Bible, a book which the Pope openly contradicts. When given a choice between honoring the Pope or honoring Christ, I choose the latter.

[Constantine XIII]

Nonetheless, if it isn't in the Bible, or passed by Congress and signed by a President, it isn't any law for me!!! :O)

[Fiddlstix]

Bump

[Porterville]

All right, I have a religion again.

[Gal.5:1]

"the strength of different religions in sustaining the search for peace"

Translated: ' peace at any cost, especially through bringing all the religions together into one huge amorphous blob world peace religion that denies Christ, and I am doing everything in my power to help achieve this.'

[It's me]

Like I said in the "other" post: I really think that this article has taken the Holy Father's words out of context. (No surprise there)

[Theresa]

I have to say it, I am angry at the pope too. All he is saying is, War is bad, peace is good. We are doing the right thing!!! It infuriates me that he does not see what a heroic thing we are doing. We are going to sacrifice our blood and treasure to defeat an evil man. That ought to be so clear to him.

I really am mad about it. It's the last straw after the way he waited way too long to adress the pedophilia crisis in America. I don't think I will ever go back to being able to admire him the way I once did.

[Dajjal]

Perhaps the Pope should have become a human shield.
Maybe then he would have a clue as to what's going on in Iraq.

[sharktrager]

"It should be clear by now that war used as an instrument of resolution of conflicts between states was rejected, even before the Charter of the United Nations, by the conscience of the majority of humanity, except in the case of defense against an aggressor," the Pope stressed.

"The vast contemporary movement in favor of peace -- which, according to Vatican Council II, is not reduced to a 'simple absence of war' -- demonstrated this conviction of men of every continent and culture," he added.

No offense, but this statement seems to me to indicate that he does not approve of the war in Iraq. Taken with his previous statements where he said the war was illigitimate, I think it's hard to say he does not side with the "movement in favor of peace".

[Salvation]

Thanks.

[k2blader]

John Paul II rejected recourse to war as a means to resolve differences -- with the exception of legitimate defense -- and urged respect for humanitarian law in armed conflicts.

Does the Pope believe our effort to oust Saddam constitutes legitimate defense?

[montag813]

My interpretation of the Pope's words fully endorses our President's actions, as we are acting in self-defense.

[kidd]

Thank you for posting this. There is a lot of disinformation going around these days. When it comes to understanding the Church's position on a given subject, I have found it necessary to find the full quote from JPII himself. Excerpts are often out of context and "Vatican officials" often have their own agenda that frequently conflicts with the Pope. I have also found it necessary to take the secular analysis provided with any quote with a grain of salt; rather the quote needs to be analyzed as to how it relates to biblical guidance or previously established moral principles (which often can be accomplished by reviewing the appropriate part of the Catechism).

The church has established what constitutes a just war. The present war meets all of these rerquirements. I interpret the Pope's comment:

"even in the hardest of battles, it is always possible and, therefore, a duty to respect the dignity of the military adversary, the dignity of civilians, and the indelible dignity of each human being involved in armed conflicts."

to be "To the United States: I know that the Iraqi military is using unjust methods of warfare. You will be tempted to lash out, but I ask you to be the adult amongst these brats".