Fleischer: Rape of POWs 'not worth mentioning'

WorldNetDaily ^ | March 25, 2003 | Les Kinsolving

[Always A Marine]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on the role of women in the military, but don't let the facts get in your way...

Now back to points. Since women in hazardious zones started in WWII do you think Patton was a PC moron?

There is absolutely no comparison to the roles of women in WWII, Korea and Vietnam to their present roles in GWII -- and George Patton would slap you from his grave for pretending there is. Back then, women weren't called Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines; they were called WACs, WAVES, WAFs and WMs, and there were no illusions that their roles stretched beyond home front and rear area support to fighting men. They served admirably in medicine and administration, and ferried trucks and planes -- but they were never intentionally deployed near enemy forces. No longer cherished, today's females are just more meat for the slaughter.

The woman captured WASN'T in a front line unit, she was in a backup maintentance unit.

That is true. However, she was assigned to a mobile contact team which was assigned to a forward position in support of a frontline combat unit. This role is called Combat Support. Because of the likelihood of enemy contact, such units were all male until the late 1980s, when the United States government reinvented human nature.

...my view on women in combat zones comes straight from my mother, a Viet Nam era Marine whom I garauntee can STILL outshoot you, out pummel you, and out drink you. People that have the will and the skill should be on the frontline.

I'm sure your mother is a fine lady and was an outstanding Woman Marine. But never in your wildest Zena fantasies would she last a day in close combat with men. It has been tried before, my friend, and for myriad reasons always failed.

We can pretend about human nature all we want, but it is that same denial which has placed our young women in such an awful position to begin with. We've all seen the photos of the pretty young girl from West Virginia. If there is one among us who did not immediately think of what any enemy troops would do to her if they caught her, I'll call that person a liar. Let us not pretend about her, and let us not pretend about where we send our females in future wars...

[sinkspur]

How's your doggy BTW?

I've got three Bichons.

I switched them over to Nutro Natural Choice two months ago, and the older one (9 years old) is doing a whole lot better. He's had some joint problems, but the glucosamine in the Nutro has added five years to his little body.

The other two are doing fine.

How are yours?

[discostu]

That's right I exploded. You spend half a page insulting my mother and I'm supposed to take it with a grin?! Not happening.

Where are your facts?! You don't have them. Here's facts, according to the Marine Corp in 1967 my mother shot well enough be in the frontline, ran with a full pack well enough to be in the front line, navigated the obstacle course well enough to be in the front line, and handled teargas well enough to be in the front line. And she's got the medals and sitations to prove it. No double standard stuff here, normalized across the board tests. But she wasn't allowed to be in the front line because she was missing 4 ounces of flesh. That's a stupid system.

That's funny you go for the idiotic PC hyperbole then accuse me of it. Here let's turn this around, I hope there aren't any men in the room, you hate them enough to have them dismembered. Sure is stupid, just as stupid when you say.

Can't you read "I have not yet begun to drink", that means I'm not handling any alchohol. There's no arguement here. You're a sexist moron and I garuantee my mother could handle every single combat duty you ever did better and with less whining. Again for the simple minded:
Anybody that can pass the physical tests (just one set, no double standards) and wants to be in combat should be.

And anybody that can't handle that should go to one of the crappy countries we're about to overrun, they like treating half their population as second class citizens. That's a big reason why they're crappy companies and we're about to overrun them.

Now, besides your delicate sensibilities why shouldn't women be in combat. Don't give me any bulldada about "upper body strength" I've already quashed that by saying the physical tests should decide, any woman that doesn't have the upper body strength will fail the tests, no combat duty for them. Real facts, no insults, no whining. I know that last one is going to be really tough for you, but I'm sure you'll fail miserably and claim victory, that's what your kind always do.

[discostu]

Regardless of the titles the women in service in previous wars were NOT in safe zones and could have and occassionally were (and especially in Viet Nam which lacked a cohesive front) injured, killed or captured. What's the difference between being captured at an aid station and on the frontline? Having an M-16 in your hand is the only one I can think of.

You can think that. But according to the citations from the Marine Corp you'd be wrong. I have the added bonus of my father also being a Marine and being able to compare their scores... she was a better shot than him, not as fast a runner but still within Corp limits.

I guess you're gonna have to call me a liar. I didn't think about what would happen to her in enemy hands, I have full confidence that all our captured soldiers will go through hell and it scares me to contemplate it. But I wouldn't insult any one who has earned a spot in our military by thinking of them with a double standard. I was taught better than that. It's the same rank insignia and the same accomplishment to get them.

[AAABEST]

Those bichons are cute as hell if you can afford them.

Jack? He's most excellent and as photogenic as ever.

[hocndoc]

Rape or torture is wrong, whether the POW is a woman or a man.

I am not soldier material, but neither are many men.

I think Mr. Fleitcher has it right: don't focus on the gender or the particular torture of the POW. Simply promise consequences.

[1rudeboy]

Lester, no follow-up.

[hocndoc]

You are demanding that the government protect citizens from themselves. If women get in the way of doing what needs to be done, then they shouldn't be at the front. If torture of women is the problem - rather than torture of POW's - then that's a whole different subject.

[KneelBeforeZod]

Les Consalving is a litle nuttty sometimes. When he fills in for people on KSFO he says a lot of very very odd things.

[george wythe]

In the civilian world you don't drag a woman's name through the mud, who has been the victim of rape. The reporters attempt to sensationalize this issue is disgraceful

Agree.

I have prayed several times today for this lady, and I keep asking the Lord to give her strength to deal with these vicious animals.

The same goes to the rest of our POWs.

[Morrigan]

If women want to go into combat situations, I say let them. These women that do this are not stupid, they know what can happen if they are captured by the enemy. Obviously the benefits of serving in the military outweigh the risks to them. These women are not delicate little flowers--both of my sisters are Marines and could kill a full grown man without the aid of a firearm.

These women know the dangers and go boldly forth because they believe that serving their country and giving their lives, if need be, is an honorable occupation. To suggest that they cannot, or should not, be able to do that is an insult. There are definitely some problems with women in the military, there is no denying that. However, they are Americans as well, and American women are not the kind of women that stay home doing their nails and eating bon bons. If people want women like that, all they have to do is go to France.

[AAABEST]

Anybody that can pass the physical tests (just one set, no double standards) and wants to be in combat should be.

You're all feminized and silly. A silly boy throwing a temper tantrum. Scroll up, I didn't insult your mom once. I guess it's hard to read when you can't even garner any common sense. Obviously you didn't follow your families grand tradidion and serve, or you probably wouldn't be spouting your bullflop.

Sorry bud, it's not about what you want, or what your mom wanted, or what the Frisco bull-dykes in NOW want. It's not about the individual. Engaging the enemy, accomplishing the mission and helping your buddies see their families again comes first. Sour puss women who think they have a right to screw up unit cohesion come last. Did your mom put all that silly glop in your head because she was bitter when she didn't get play with the boys, or do you come up with this vacuous nonsense on your own.

You can't even figure out that the battlefield psychology goes way beyond any physical test. You would have women with crew cuts taking a crap in front of a few hundred men just so you goo-brains can give the "right" to get mangled to a chick. You'd have an experiment in human desires gone horribly wrong just to satisfy some warped, asinine sense of fairness.

Your fairness is other people's deaths, other families ruined or a mission gone wrong. Get a friggin' grip for crissake.

[PuNcH]

Les is too damn chicken to find the parents of Shoshana Johnson and ask this question to their faces. No, he's got to plant in everyone's memory that Shoshana Johnson is probably going to be sexually brutalized by her Iraqi captors. In fact, Kinsolving probably is getting aroused by the question as I type. I hope Les is right there when Shoshana Johnson comes home. I want him to ask her to her face if she was raped. And I want it well-publicized because the reaction of the people around her isn't going to be pretty.

Is there a point to your mindless blitherings? A female is in fact weaker and they are in fact a much greater liability in a combat situation. Got that? The issue arises because it is in fact happening.

It causes great pain.

[AAABEST]

You are demanding that the government protect citizens from themselves.

OMG, where do people come up with this stuff? That's a good one.

No, I'm "demanding that" when we send people into a meat grinder that they enable them to get from point a to point b in the most efficient effective way possible. That's how you save human life.

Women do not belong on a battlefield. It's simply absurd in so many ways.

[FreedomCalls]

You know what? The Iraqis (as well as guards in other Arab countries) rape their MALE prisoners as well as their female ones.

"War is Hell."

[Doomonyou]

I would like to hear what hillary, Boxer, feinstien, schroder, and the NOW gang have to say about this.

[PuNcH]

You know what? The Iraqis (as well as guards in other Arab countries) rape their MALE prisoners as well as their female ones. "War is Hell."

You know what? The torture of a woman causes far greater pain to the military unit regardless of whether it is equal or not. The use of a woman in combat will cause a shift in focus from the unit to the individual, the woman. The torture of the woman will cause an almost immediate breakdown.

[Always A Marine]

Regardless of the titles the women in service in previous wars were NOT in safe zones and could have and occassionally were (and especially in Viet Nam which lacked a cohesive front) injured, killed or captured. What's the difference between being captured at an aid station and on the frontline? Having an M-16 in your hand is the only one I can think of.

The lack of a cohesive front is a further argument against the spread of women into wider ranges of occupation specialties, and is directly attributable to the capture of the two Army females. To answer your question about the aid station, combat and combat support units were assigned to protect those medical units. As a result, we didn't hear of many nurses being captured. Today, we pretend they are just like the guys.

You can think that. But according to the citations from the Marine Corp[sic] you'd be wrong. I have the added bonus of my father also being a Marine and being able to compare their scores... she was a better shot than him, not as fast a runner but still within Corp[sic] limits.

The integration of women into the services has seen the steady erosion of physical toughness required of the average servicemember. Ask your father about the old Physical Readiness Test, which severely tested the will of a Marine, not not just his strength and conditioning. It was abandoned in favor of the gentler and less demanding Physical Fitness Test, which itself is normed for females. Fortunately, Marine infantry battalions have reinstituted the PRT in addition to the semiannual PFT exercise session.

But at its core, ground combat is about far more than running, pull-ups (flexed-arm hangs for women), situps and target shooting. It is about more than carrying heavy loads over difficult terrain and distances, which women can't do. It is about more than carrying your wounded buddy and both your weapons to safety, by yourself, which women can't do. Ground combat is about brutality, the level of which shocks even the toughest men. What I have done, I would not wish on any man -- let alone any young American women. Women who believe it is for them are sadly and dangerously deluded.

I guess you're gonna have to call me a liar. I didn't think about what would happen to her in enemy hands, I have full confidence that all our captured soldiers will go through hell and it scares me to contemplate it. But I wouldn't insult any one who has earned a spot in our military by thinking of them with a double standard. I was taught better than that. It's the same rank insignia and the same accomplishment to get them.

If you didn't think of it, you must be a woman. Ignorance of the nature of men -- especially fighting men -- leads unsuspecting females into a false sense of what a fight to the death is all about. And while women wear the same rank insignia as men, they are simply not capable of the same physical accomplishments. If you can understand why women don't play in the NFL, it should be a no-brainer why they shouldn't be "placed" in the field of real combat where they plainly do not belong. The very strongest women are almost equal in strength to the weakest men -- and the weakest men are not equipped for the brutal rigors of ground combat.

[Minty]

I would say even though I do agree with you, this is a subject that needs to be addressed. I always wondered what they do if the woman is pregnant and duty calls? Lets say she is in her first or second trimestre, does she gets to stay behind because of she is pregnant? Another thing that I consider sometimes is nursing mothers. But again I guess PC supercedes common sense.

[uncitizen]

Come on, Les. Couldn't you think of anything better to ask than that?