A WARMONGER EXPLAINS WAR TO A PEACENIK (barph alert)

rec.motorcycles.harley ^ | 3-21-2003 | Joe Mama

[The Red Zone]

A WARMONGER EXPLAINS WAR TO A PEACENIK

PeaceNik: Why did you say we are we invading Iraq?

WarMonger: We are invading Iraq because it is in violation of security council resolution 1441. A country cannot be allowed to violate security council resolutions.

PN: But I thought many of our allies, including Israel, were in violation of more security council resolutions than Iraq.

WM: It's not just about UN resolutions. The main point is that Iraq could have weapons of mass destruction, and the first sign of a smoking gun could well be a mushroom cloud over NY.

PN: Mushroom cloud? But I thought the weapons inspectors said Iraq had no nuclear weapons.

WM: Yes, but biological and chemical weapons are the issue.

PN: But I thought Iraq did not have any long range missiles for attacking us or our allies with such weapons.

WM: The risk is not Iraq directly attacking us, but rather terrorists networks that Iraq could sell the weapons to.

PN: But couldn't virtually any country sell chemical or biological materials? We sold quite a bit to Iraq in the eighties ourselves, didn't we?

WM: That's ancient history. Look, Saddam Hussein is an evil man that has an undeniable track record of repressing his own people since the early eighties. He gasses his enemies. Everyone agrees that he is a power-hungry lunatic murderer.

PN: We sold chemical and biological materials to a power-hungry lunatic murderer?

WM: The issue is not what we sold, but rather what Saddam did. He is the one that launched a pre-emptive first strike on Kuwait.

PN: A pre-emptive first strike does sound bad. But didn't our ambassador to Iraq, April Gillespie, know about and green-light the invasion of Kuwait?

WM: Let's deal with the present, shall we? As of today, Iraq could sell its biological and chemical weapons to Al Quaida. Osama BinLaden himself released an audio tape calling on Iraqis to suicide-attack us, proving a partnership between the two.

PN: Osama Bin Laden? Wasn't the point of invading Afghanistan to kill him?

WM: Actually, it's not 100% certain that it's really Osama Bin Laden on the tapes. But the lesson from the tape is the same: there could easily be a partnership between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein unless we act.

PN: Is this the same audio tape where Osama Bin Laden labels Saddam a secular infidel?

WM: You're missing the point by just focusing on the tape. Powell presented a strong case against Iraq.

PN: He did?

WM: Yes, he showed satellite pictures of an Al Quaeda poison factory in Iraq.

PN: But didn't that turn out to be a harmless shack in the part of Iraq controlled by the Kurdish opposition?

WM: And a British intelligence report...

PN: Didn't that turn out to be copied from an out-of-date graduate student paper?

WM: And reports of mobile weapons labs...

PN: Weren't those just artistic renderings?

WM: And reports of Iraquis scuttling and hiding evidence from inspectors...

PN: Wasn't that evidence contradicted by the chief weapons inspector, Hans Blix?

WM: Yes, but there is plenty of other hard evidence that cannot be revealed because it would compromise our security.

PN: So there is no publicly available evidence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

WM: The inspectors are not detectives, it's not their JOB to find evidence. You're missing the point.

PN: So what is the point?

WM: The main point is that we are invading Iraq because resolution 1441 threatened "severe consequences." If we do not act, the security council will become an irrelevant debating society.

PN: So the main point is to uphold the rulings of the security council?

WM: Absolutely. ...unless it rules against us.

PN: And what if it does rule against us?

WM: In that case, we must lead a coalition of the willing to invade Iraq.

PN: Coalition of the willing? Who's that?

WM: Britain, Turkey, Bulgaria, Spain, and Italy, for starters.

PN: I thought Turkey refused to help us unless we gave them tens of billions of dollars.

WM: Nevertheless, they may now be willing.

PN: I thought public opinion in all those countries was against war.

WM: Current public opinion is irrelevant. The majority expresses its will by electing leaders to make decisions.

PN: So it's the decisions of leaders elected by the majority that is important?

WM: Yes.

PN: But George Bush wasn't elected by voters. He was selected by the US Supreme C...-

WM: I mean, we must support the decisions of our leaders, however they were elected, because they are acting in our best interest. This is about being a patriot. That's the bottom line.

PN: So if we do not support the decisions of the president, we are not patriotic?

WM: I never said that.

PN: So what are you saying? Why are we invading Iraq?

WM: As I said, because there is a chance that they have weapons of mass destruction that threaten us and our allies.

PN: But the inspectors have not been able to find any such weapons.

WM: Iraq is obviously hiding them.

PN: You know this? How?

WM: Because we know they had the weapons ten years ago, and they are still unaccounted for.

PN: The weapons we sold them, you mean?

WM: Precisely.

PN: But I thought those biological and chemical weapons would degrade to an unusable state over ten years.

WM: But there is a chance that some have not degraded.

PN: So as long as there is even a small chance that such weapons exist, we must invade?

WM: Exactly.

PN: But North Korea actually has large amounts of usable chemical, biological, AND nuclear weapons, AND long range missiles that can reach the west coast AND it has expelled nuclear weapons inspectors, AND threatened to turn America into a sea of fire.

WM: That's a diplomatic issue.

PN: So why are we invading Iraq instead of using diplomacy?

WM: Aren't you listening? We are invading Iraq because we cannot allow the inspections to drag on indefinitely. Iraq has been delaying, deceiving, and denying for over ten years, and inspections cost us tens of millions.

PN: But I thought war would cost us tens of billions.

WM: Yes, but this is not about money. This is about security.

PN: But wouldn't a pre-emptive war against Iraq ignite radical Muslim sentiments against us, and decrease our security?

WM: Possibly, but we must not allow the terrorists to change the way we live. Once we do that, the terrorists have already won.

PN: So what is the purpose of the Department of Homeland Security, color-coded terror alerts, and the Patriot Act? Don't these change the way we live?

WM: I thought you had questions about Iraq.

PN: I do. Why are we invading Iraq?

WM: For the last time, we are invading Iraq because the world has called on Saddam Hussein to disarm, and he has failed to do so. He must now face the consequences.

PN: So, likewise, if the world called on us to do something, such as find a peaceful solution, we would have an obligation to listen?

WM: By "world", I meant the United Nations.

PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the United Nations?

WM: By "United Nations" I meant the Security Council.

PN: So, we have an an obligation to listen to the Security Council?

WM: I meant the majority of the Security Council.

PN: So, we have an obligation to listen to the majority of the Security Council?

WM: Well... there could be an unreasonable veto.

PN: In which case?

WM: In which case, we have an obligation to ignore the veto.

PN: And if the majority of the Security Council does not support us at all?

WM: Then we have an obligation to ignore the Security Council.

PN: That makes no sense.

WM: If you love Iraq so much, you should move there. Or maybe France, with the all the other cheese-eating surrender monkeys. It's time to boycott their wine and cheese, no doubt about that.

PN: I give up!

[The Red Zone]

barph, barph, barph

[goldstategop]

Moral of the fable: Never argue with a Commie.

[FenianOfEire]

I think it sums it up... Thanks for the post...

[Turbodog]

The war in Iraq did not change world public opinion of the US one iota. What the debate did is expose it for everyone to see. World public opinion of the US is exactly the same as it was before this whole Iraq debate began. The only difference now is because of the debate countries were compelled to reveal publicly their true opinions of the US. The Iraq debate brought world public opinion of the US to the forefront; it exposed it, it made it available, and it made it known for all who wish to see.

The left’s contention that the world now hates us because of the War with Iraq is as absurd as their liberal-socialist political philosophy is absurd. Because of this debate what we found out is that there is much resentment throughout the world because America is the richest and most powerful country. They resent our riches, our power, and (most of all) they resent our influence, and as long as America maintains its position of world pre-eminence that resentment worldwide will remain.

The only thing that would remove this world resentment of America is the faltering of our pre-eminent position, which is exactly what the left and losers like cheese eating surrender monkeys advocate. They advocate that America subrogate its sovereign authority and national interest to the U.N., which is run by a cabal of leftist-socialist-globalist, who would then cut America down to size. It’s one of the most appalling and ridiculous philosophies imaginable.

Bill Clinton recently commented that America is "too powerful" and Jimmy Carter recently published an op-ed in the New York Times condemning Bush’s determination to go to war with Iraq without U.N. approval. These leaders and all who follow them, a.k.a. the Democratic Party, advocate that America become less rich, less powerful, and less influential. They are appalled that America should seek to maintain its position of global pre-eminence and international leadership.

It is a position so against American values and principles that it is anti-American.

[Knuckle Sandwich Combo]

A WARMONGER EXPLAINS WAR TO A PEACENIK...

NEXT!

Islamo-fascists of the world...take note...and beware.

[fr_freak]

Ah, where to begin, where to begin. I'll just pick out a few links in the "logic" chain that are the most obvious:

PN: But I thought many of our allies, including Israel, were in violation of more security council resolutions than Iraq.

I disagree with this statement regardless, but the logic in this statement is that since other people do things the UN doesn't like, we should never bother enforcing anything. Ironically, what this person doesn't realize is that they are actually arguing that the UN is irrelevant.

PN: Mushroom cloud? But I thought the weapons inspectors said Iraq had no nuclear weapons.

This includes the big assumption that the inspectors know what the HELL they are doing, which few reasonable people believe. PN: But couldn't virtually any country sell chemical or biological materials? We sold quite a bit to Iraq in the eighties ourselves, didn't we?

This statement assumes that all countries are equally belligerent. A lot of countries may have chemical weapons, but few are ready to use them to kill as many Americans as possible as Iraq has sworn to do. And for the ones that would, they're probably next.

I'll stop there. That was amusing enough for a late night.

[LadyDoc]

I can't decide which I like best.

The "missles" that the inspectors clam don't exist (you know the ones that just hit Kuwait)

Or the "weapons" that spontaneously disintegrate in ten years (never mind that anthrax spores can last 100 years and WWI mustard gas is still a major hazard when shells are found in French fields).

Similarly, US Nerve gas has to be destroyed by a specialized incinerator (nerve gas was last produced before Nixon was president) but we are supposed to think that the vx gas in Iraq was destroyed by pouring it into a pit.

Life is so much easier when you don't have to think...

nor is this leftist: Many human rights organizations and medical journals documented saddam's atrocities with nerve gas etc in the last 15 years, and many still have these documents on line. However, the peaceniks are again pushing the big lie, figuring if they do it enough, it will be believed. Just like Stalin got away with starving 30 million Ukrainians ...