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No-flags order causes a flap along the front line
The International Herald Tribune ^ | Thursday, March 20, 2003 | Jim Dwyer/The New York Times

Posted on 03/19/2003 4:51:43 PM PST by Willie Green

For education and discussion only. Not for commercial use.

CAMP NEW JERSEY, Kuwait As U.S. troops roll toward the Iraqi border this week, they have been given orders on two matters of decorum: no throwing candy to Iraqi children, and no displaying flags regimental, state or even the American flag.

Military officials say that candy give-aways would draw swarms of children to the convoys, a dangerous proposition with thousands of trucks, Humvees, and trailers barreling toward Baghdad.

As for the ban on flags, its effect was apparent in this camp Wednesday, where no more than a handful of vehicles mustering for the invasion displayed any flags.

Officials say the flag could give the citizens of Iraq the wrong idea about the convoys of artillery, ammunition and soldiers.

They are not, these officials say, an army of conquest, intent on claiming Iraqi land or treasure for the United States, but a liberation force. They are concerned that streams of American flags would be seen as provocative.

"It's imposing enough that we're coming into another society," said Captain Frank Stanco, a commander with an artillery unit in the 101st Airborne. "I tell our soldiers we want to maintain our professionalism. We could be making history. I call it being quiet professionals."

In 1991, at the end of the first Gulf War, American military convoys entered Kuwait festooned with the Stars and Stripes after a quick rout of the Iraqi Army occupying the country. Soldiers recall being greeted rapturously by the Kuwaitis.

On Wednesday afternoon, thousands of soldiers sat in long convoys, fully packed and waiting for orders to begin an invasion that would carry many of them 640 kilometers (400 miles) north to Baghdad.

Only a handful of the vehicles flew American flags.

One of those was a "water buffalo," a truck towing potable water, but the sergeant in charge of it shook his head and walked away when asked about the flag, which flew from a pole strapped to the side of the truck.

Another soldier waiting for the convoy to move, Specialist John Garcia, said he was ordered to take the flag off his Humvee for security reasons. "They said it was because we would be an easy target," Garcia said. "It got me real upset. I had just bought that flag."

The no-flags order was passed along to the 101st Airborne Division by its commander, Major General David Petraeus, who said that the decision had been made by his superiors. "It's the right thing to do," said General Petraeus, as a way of underscoring the American commitment to regime change for security and human rights, and not to seizing the country.

Spokesmen for the U.S. Central Command in Qatar said they were unable to provide information about the order.

The question of flag-flying provoked a small debate among artillery soldiers waiting to leave camp Wednesday.

Garcia said he was angry that he had been ordered to take down his flag, and that so few countries were supporting the United States and Britain in the military campaign.

"When they're in trouble, they don't call Russia, China, France, Turkey; they call 911, the United States," he said. "That's why I put my flag on my Humvee."

Another soldier, Specialist Robert Bratton, asked: "You can't blame them. You got a lot of Americans back in the States against it."

A sergeant, Elmer Smith, said the United States was seen as interfering in the affairs of too many countries. "The U.S. meddles," he said.

Bratton asked: "What's the reason we're fighting?"

Garcia answered, "I think Saddam Hussein got them weapons."

Bratton shook his head.

"I think it's oil," he said.

Smith offered his theory. "I think it's revenge for his father," he said.

Preparing for night work Combat pilots and others on the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt were ordered to sleep through the day Wednesday so they could work through the night, The Associated Press reported.

Those on the Harry S. Truman remained on day duty, thus providing round-the-clock combat capability.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: campnewjersey; embeddedreport
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1 posted on 03/19/2003 4:51:44 PM PST by Willie Green
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To: Willie Green
How gay.
2 posted on 03/19/2003 4:53:13 PM PST by smith288 (Visit my gallery http://www.ejsmithweb.com/fr/hollywood/hollywood.php)
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To: Willie Green
Hate to say this, but the flags violate camouflauge discipline.

With the prevalence of National Guard units supporting the active Army, state flags could very easily break operational security by giving another piece of SALUTE (Size, Activity, Location, Unit, Time, Equipment) data.

And, of course, regimental standards DEFINITELY break OPSEC.

We have the best damn military in the world--and we are the best because we pay attention to the small stuff, from whence the big stuff comes.
3 posted on 03/19/2003 4:57:55 PM PST by Poohbah (Beware the fury of a patient man -- John Dryden)
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To: Willie Green
Here's what I want to see for the troops in Iraq. On APO/FPO limits, the same as any overseas post, like the men and women in Europe or the Pacific get. I mean pork for one.
4 posted on 03/19/2003 5:01:51 PM PST by Hillarys Gate Cult ("Read Hillary's hips. I never had sex with that woman.")
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To: Willie Green
To be expected. Dosen't make you feel good..but its the right call. "Regular" troops will understand some day. I was proud to see Marines plant the flag in Afganistan, but as an old SOF guy I knew it wasn't a good idea. Would have been better to help them plant the Afgan flag and cheer it like it were your own.
5 posted on 03/19/2003 5:03:06 PM PST by MP5SD
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To: Willie Green

Another soldier, Specialist Robert Bratton, asked: "You can't blame them. You got a lot of Americans back in the States against it."

A sergeant, Elmer Smith, said the United States was seen as interfering in the affairs of too many countries. "The U.S. meddles," he said.

Bratton asked: "What's the reason we're fighting?"

Garcia answered, "I think Saddam Hussein got them weapons."

Bratton shook his head.

"I think it's oil," he said.

Smith offered his theory. "I think it's revenge for his father," he said.

Typical New York Times B.S.

6 posted on 03/19/2003 5:05:58 PM PST by Pukka Puck
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To: Pukka Puck; Willie Green
Yeah............ the "white guys" , Bratton and Smith are doing the talking points and Garcia is doing an Homage to Estrada.
7 posted on 03/19/2003 5:19:05 PM PST by ffusco ("Essiri sempri la santu fora la chiesa.")
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To: MP5SD
I agree, it is the right call, tough as it is to swallow.
We do great on the technical stuff but we have to do a little bit better in the "hearts and minds" department to avoid future trouble in the region. This kind of concession will help.

LQ
8 posted on 03/19/2003 5:21:17 PM PST by LizardQueen
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To: Willie Green
Sounds like a very clever strategy to me.
9 posted on 03/19/2003 5:23:33 PM PST by ex-Texan (primates capitulards toujours en quete de fromage!)
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To: Willie Green
The worst thing for me during GW-I was not being able to have bibles for the first few months we were there.

I thought the Saudi's had a lot of nerve trying that one.

Sorry, but I have a deep hatred of Islam, unless it's of the pure secular sense.

10 posted on 03/19/2003 5:26:37 PM PST by AAABEST
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To: Willie Green
"They are not, these officials say, an army of conquest, intent on claiming Iraqi land or treasure for the United States, but a liberation force. They are concerned that streams of American flags would be seen as provocative."

Tell that to our old soldiers, who liberated France, American flags waving.

Europe wet their collective pants in glee when they saw our flag. The Iraqies will be just as greatful.

Whatever PC idiot in the military gave THAT order (no American flags) should be fired immediately.

The "anti-flag" (anti-US) crowd has infiltrated the Military.

"Provocative?" I've got your provocative right here.

Let there be no doubt in the world: The Americans are coming to liberate Iraq.

11 posted on 03/19/2003 5:30:40 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Leave the monkeys alone.)
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Elmer Smith is an idiot.
12 posted on 03/19/2003 5:31:58 PM PST by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: Willie Green
""It's imposing enough that we're coming into another society," said Captain Frank Stanco, a commander with an artillery unit in the 101st Airborne. "I tell our soldiers we want to maintain our professionalism. We could be making history. I call it being quiet professionals."

I call it being shamed to be an American. I call it blatent PC cowardice.

13 posted on 03/19/2003 5:33:04 PM PST by MonroeDNA (Leave the monkeys alone.)
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To: Willie Green
When I was in Viet Nam we had State Flags, The Stars and Bars, US Flags, and those of several foreign countries flying, track commanders country of birth, flying, no static then.
14 posted on 03/19/2003 5:34:16 PM PST by Little Bill (No Rats, A.N.S.W.E.R (WWP) is a commie front!!!!)
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To: AAABEST
Tell me why you left home without your bible in your ruck? Dude..its only slightly bigger than a deck of cards.
15 posted on 03/19/2003 5:35:27 PM PST by MP5SD
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To: Little Bill
I sent my brother a Van Dorn Battle Flag to fly during GW I. He flew it for awhile until someone made a complaint that it looked like a Pakistani flag and someone else recognized it as a Confederate Flag.
16 posted on 03/19/2003 5:41:49 PM PST by vetvetdoug
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To: Willie Green
It figures they'd name the place "Camp New Jersey."

It probably looks like the inside of a transistor radio, smells like burning oil wells, and is commanded by a guy who is about to be replaced at the last minute by an 85 year-old moron.

17 posted on 03/19/2003 5:41:55 PM PST by Alberta's Child
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To: vetvetdoug
someone else recognized it as a Confederate Flag.

A friend of mine in B/3/4 Cav had Little Annie Fannie holding a RVN flag and the US Flag painted on the side of his track along with the Fighting Prince of Donnegal, Flew an Irish flag and the US Flag, until we got a new squadron CO, Ahole Lifer, made him paint over Little Annie, RPG target, we both got dinged at the same time, and used to laugh about it. He was on his second tour, went through TET and never took a hit until the painting.

18 posted on 03/19/2003 6:01:53 PM PST by Little Bill (No Rats, A.N.S.W.E.R (WWP) is a commie front!!!!)
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To: vetvetdoug
someone else recognized it as a Confederate Flag.

A friend of mine in B/3/4 Cav had Little Annie Fannie holding a RVN flag and the US Flag painted on the side of his track along with the Fighting Prince of Donnegal, Flew an Irish flag and the US Flag, until we got a new squadron CO, Ahole Lifer, made him paint over Little Annie, RPG target, we both got dinged at the same time, and used to laugh about it. He was on his second tour, went through TET and never took a hit until the painting.

19 posted on 03/19/2003 6:02:28 PM PST by Little Bill (No Rats, A.N.S.W.E.R (WWP) is a commie front!!!!)
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To: Little Bill
Double post me bad.
20 posted on 03/19/2003 6:04:37 PM PST by Little Bill (No Rats, A.N.S.W.E.R (WWP) is a commie front!!!!)
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