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Propane thefts get FBI attention
Chicago Sun-Times ^

Posted on 03/19/2003 8:15:44 AM PST by arkady_renko

Propane thefts get FBI attention

Chicago Sun-Times 3/19/03

The theft of propane tanks from Chicago area businesses probably would not have prompted police departments to call the FBI in the days before the Sept. 11 attacks.

But with war looming and the nation on alert for terrorism, several suburban agencies decided federal authorities needed to know.

Dozens of the tanks have disappeared from businesses in Burbank, Evanston and Oak Lawn over the last month or so.

The Burbank theft may have been the most intriguing to police: Eight tanks were stolen from a convenience store where Nabil al-Marabh was arrested by the FBI on Sept. 19, 2001. His name was on a U.S. terrorist watch list.

FBI spokesman Ross Rice confirmed the bureau is investigating the thefts, but he downplayed any possible link to terrorism.

"We are seeing whether there is a connection between the thefts," Rice said, pointing out that FBI agents have no evidence of anything more than isolated cases of larceny.

He added, however, that agents are "exploring the possibility of something more nefarious."

Some of the stolen propane tanks are designed for use with home grills. Others have industrial applications, such as powering fork lifts.

Propane industry officials said they have been on alert for the possibility that terrorists could steal them to use as weapons.

"Our association put out a warning after 9/11 to be more observant, especially about the security of our trucks," said Carl Mattis, manager of Chicago Propane Co.

In addition to the suburban thefts, Chicago police are investigating the theft of 25 propane tanks from a business at 5248 S. Cicero around Feb. 7 and 10 more tanks from the same location around Feb. 28, a police spokesman said.

Al-Marabh is being held in Detroit, where he provided testimony behind closed doors last week in the case of four men suspected of participating in a terrorist "sleeper cell" based in Chicago. Their trial began this week. The government is preparing to deport al-Marabh to Syria.


TOPICS: News/Current Events; US: Illinois; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: almarabh; denial; fbi; isolatedincidents; nabilalmarabh; propane; propanetheft; theft
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To: taxed2death
The terrorists were draining the propane and filling them with plastic explosives. I saw one make a crater that you could park a truck in and turn a whole parking lot full of cars into smoking junk. I was about 200 yards away when it went off and my car was showered with chunks of metal - some of which weighed 20-30 pounds. Try explaining that to your insurance agent.
21 posted on 03/19/2003 9:22:45 AM PST by mbynack
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To: N. Theknow
You want freedom fries with that, Frency?" :)
22 posted on 03/19/2003 9:52:32 AM PST by anymouse
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To: cake_crumb
If I recall correctly from my HAZMAT training in a former life, LP gas or Propane is heavier than ambient air.
I'm pretty sure that this quality is shared with Natural Gas.

That's why if there is a leak in your house, it will settle down into the basement or lowest space in the building, and as soon as your furnace comes on, or someone flips a light switch and triggers even a teenie tiny little spark....

))))))***KA-BOOOOM!!***((((

Now vent a couple of those big babys down the air vents of a subway tunnel on a frosty predawn Morning just before the Commuter rush-hour and it will settle right down next to the tracks, and people standing up on the platform might not even smell it (that stink is added to the stuff, by the way, so that a leak might be detected before it's too late).

Heck, if it got that high up in the tunnel, it would displace the air sufficiently so that even a gas-mask wouldn't help you much - no oxygen; you suffocate.
I don't think too many Commuters will be going to work with a Scott-pack or SCUBA gear.

Besides, even if intended Victims caught a scent of their doom, a stampede on the exits would effecively block them so that few, if any, would escape in time.

Terrorists could, I suppose, have a few "Homeless" operatives stationed at major street accesses wearing long trench coats over their full auto high-capacity AK's, ready to hose down the leading wave of panicked escapees and /or responding Emergency Service personel... but that probably won't even be neccessary.

..And then along comes the train... and have you seen all those blue and purple sparks that seem to be crackling out from those wheels almost constantly?

If I were in charge of the Subway system, or even Public Works where traffic passes through tunnels - and I surely am not - I would invest in a bunch of these $50 gas detectors like we have in our Motor-Home and post them discretely in strategic locations. Then I would have some electronic Wonk hitch them up to a central monitoring station... oh, I suppose the Fire Dept. Dispatch might suffice - and if they see a bunch of them going off in a particular area and "spreading", they can hit the "All Hades Breaks Loose" button - expeditiously!!!

Not only that, but each and every public transportation vehicle would be equipped with a Plectron-activated radio that would go off on no uncertain terms imediately when said button was hit, and all operators would be trained to take evasive action to protect Passengers. I would also have every Meter-Maid and Dog-Catcher in Town who could shoot among those "Passengers" in casual if not "Street" dress - armed to the TEETH and maintaining constant 360-degree tactical awareness!

But then again I'm not in charge of anything, so you good people out there in the "Hood are on your own.

My late Father-In-Law told of a rascal he knew right after WW-II who, for a practical joke, pried up a manhole cover near the top of a hill on one of his City's Streets.
Fall River, Mass. as I recall.

Having accomplished that manly feat, he dumped about a gallon of gasoline he'd siphoned out of a nearby Model "A" down the manhole, waited about 3 minutes, and flipped his cigarette down after it.

All the way down the street, one after another, cast iron manhole covers weighing at least a couple of hundred pounds lifted high off of the street on collumns of flame and smoke with a hearty roar, and when they came back to earth several of them were on edge, and rolling down the hill to wreak havoc on whoever or whatever got in their way.

It seems that the guy not only thought that it was utterly hilarious, but he never got caught as far as Father-In-Law knew.

Now if some dipsy Fall River drunk can figure out how to raise that much hob on the spur of the moment, what kind of ideas do you suppose our IslamoNazi "Sleepers" can come up with, eh??

You might want to consider "staking out" some of those remote out-of-the-way propane tanks, fellas - or even bugging some of them with transponders, perhaps, set to "peep" you when the motion sensor is disturbed or whenever you want to "ping" them for a timely "Hello!; Here I am!".

Having them certified safe for explosive environments might not be a bad idea.

A constant-on signal might be detected, you know, by anyone who had other things in mind than running the BBQ grill or toasting up some Meth.

We've got plenty of this technology about, you know; it might be prudent to apply a little here and there.

Just a thought.

23 posted on 03/19/2003 10:10:19 AM PST by Uncle Jaque (MOXIE(R); It ain't for everyone, Y'know...)
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To: Uncle Jaque
If I recall correctly from my HAZMAT training in a former life, LP gas or Propane is heavier than ambient air. I'm pretty sure that this quality is shared with Natural Gas.

Natural gas is one of very few substances which are lighter than air. The list, IIRC:

Material Density (g/mole)
Hydrogen 2
Helium-3 3
Helium 4
Deutereum (Hydrogen-2) 4
Tritium (Hydrogen-2) 6
Methane CH4 16
Ammonia NH3 17
Water 18
Heavy water (deuterium oxide) 20
Hydrogen Fluoride 20
Neon 20
Carbon monoxide 28*
Nitrogen 28*
[most common isotopes given except as noted]
(*) The density of air is just over 28. Nitrogen and carbon monoxide are close enough in density to air that gravity will not separate them out to any significant degree.
24 posted on 03/19/2003 4:36:39 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: arkady_renko
Maybe we can expect a chain of apartment building blasts?
25 posted on 03/19/2003 4:55:13 PM PST by virgil
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To: supercat
Hmm; I was "pretty sure" but wrong about that, eh?

Thanks for the correction on the "natural gas" which I assume is made up of (or mostly of) Methane(?)

That explains why we are advised to keep our raincoats buttoned up tight at the collar after a big Maine bean supper!

Natural gas isn't used nearly as much as it used to be, is it?

As to the LP, am I correct in that it is heavier than air? I don't see a specfic gravity for it on that table you put up.

Air is about 28, but water is only 18? How do we figure that water is lighter than air, pray tell? Is that in it's gaseous form - ie. steam?
26 posted on 03/19/2003 6:37:34 PM PST by Uncle Jaque (MOXIE(R); It ain't for everyone, Y'know...)
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To: Uncle Jaque
Air is about 28, but water is only 18? How do we figure that water is lighter than air, pray tell? Is that in it's gaseous form - ie. steam?

Water vapor is much lighter than air; this is why high humidity is correlated with low barometric pressure. Liquid water, of course, is much heavier. BTW, propane is C3H8, and as such has a molecular weight of 44. Interestingly, burning 44 grams of propane will yield 72 grams of water. Think on that one.

27 posted on 03/19/2003 6:52:20 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: Uncle Jaque
Thanks for the correction on the "natural gas" which I assume is made up of (or mostly of) Methane(?)

The primary fuel component of natural gas is indeed methane (CH4).

Natural gas isn't used nearly as much as it used to be, is it?

Not sure what you mean by that; in much of the country it's still the preferred heating, cooking, and clothes-drying fuel.

28 posted on 03/19/2003 6:53:59 PM PST by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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