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To: eno_
Old white guys with bad polyester pants maintaining crappy old mainframe code are sitting ducks for cost reductions

That's a fallacy with a bunch of innuendo. I know lots of guys white, black, brown, perhaps with a mainframe background, but also experts in complex, multi-tier Java/Oracle/Sun based software (ok..ok.. some Microsoft technology guys too..). The only thing they have in common is that they've worked 30 years to get ahead in their industry, and they're being replaced by folks who are in-effect, indentured servants.

If it's fine for the U.S. Government to beg the world to take the jobs of the anglosaxon guys in polyester pants, why should we stop there? How 'bout we bring in a bunch of young Irish kids to work for $15,000 a year as school teachers? They'd love the work, and would provide a first class education.

How 'bout police, firemen, just about all civil service jobs.. we can get college educated foreign workers to take these jobs too, and IMAGINE how much money we all can say. All the government has to do is provide a free Visa which is worth about $40,000, PLUS guarantee the workers won't exhibit any independence for about 5-7 years while they wait for their green cards.

Why is it that American computer professionals, the one's who BUILD THE COMPUTER INDUSTRY HERE IN THE US, why should they alone be the target of a job-replacement scheme?

The truth is that this is an industry wide practice. It's not the nationality, and companies don't always save that much money, but in a highly competitive industry like software and hardware systems, how much is it worth to have a workforce that is non-mobile, that will be there no matter how badly they are abused (i.e. 3 workers to a cube, 60-90 hours per week, pay kick-backs, etc.).

My 14 year old son is a talented web designer. I started teaching him the business from the professional side a few years ago. But I told him this year to forget it. There's no future in software development or support. It's all being outsourced overseas.. computer professionals are now a comodity. I'm sure I'm not alone. How many kids in college will go $100,000 into debt (or how many parents will foot the bill) for the prospect of earning $40-60K in ten years?! That's where the market is heading.. in fact, it's already just about there.

FReegards, SFS.

22 posted on 03/18/2003 4:27:35 AM PST by Steel and Fire and Stone
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
There's no future in software development or support

You got it. I am a lifelong ITer. I counseled every one of my kids to NOT major in Comp. Sci. One of the best bits of advice I ever gave. The industry is facing ruin at least on the domestic front.

25 posted on 03/18/2003 4:32:05 AM PST by doosee
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
and they're being replaced by folks who are in-effect, indentured servants.

Yes --because if the Indian programmers were so great, they wouldn't be paying them LESS money, they pay them at least the same. It's all about money, the CEOs like it more than anything else, definitely more than this country.

33 posted on 03/18/2003 5:34:26 AM PST by FITZ
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To: Steel and Fire and Stone
Here in Cleveland just a few years ago they brought in about 60 teachers from India.No effort it seems to try and fill from our local colleges.

I just had a conversation with a friend who is a recruiter like me in the IT field.She said one of the biggest companies in town just outsourced to a firm strictly dealing with engineers from India.An absolute disgrace,especially when these CEO's making the decisions are paid a bonus on how much money they can save the corporation by making these moves.The quality of work is pure crap and the communication problems are just half of the problems.These CEO's are around for only a few years and don't see the longterm effect it really has on a company and the moral. I'm really sick of this happening all the time.

111 posted on 03/19/2003 2:13:14 PM PST by oust the louse
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