Girls Go Wild - so do profits - Empire of 'ordinary' girls flashing anatomy becomes part of culture

PalmBeachPost.com ^ | 16 Mar 03 | Paul Lomartire

[B-Chan]

"What about mental and emotional health?"
If you can't measure it, you can't make laws for it.

I wasn't talking about making any law. Please reread my post.

If you disagree about the need for objective science as a guide to policy, then you'll want to run along to the DUmpster to pledge your support for Algore's environmental agenda.

"Objective" science is a fine guide to policymakers when combined with other guides, such as religious belief, philosophy, gut reactions, and common sense. The scientific method is not the be-all end-all of human judgement, fortunately.

"The history of pornograhy since the 1940s bears me out."
Since the 1940s? Really, I hadn't expected the sort of person who thinks that the world began with their own generation to take much interest in FR.

No argument, huh? You should know that weak attempts at ad hominem won't work on me. Please try again.

"The only permanent way for a culture to avoid an endless spiral into the sewer is for a change to occur in people's hearts so that the demand for pornography disappears. Barring that, laws against porngraphy must be passed and strictly enforced."

Since no sane person believes that either is possible in the real world, why bother?

Quelle jejeune. Why bother with anything?

Your unsupported assertion ("no sane person believes that either is possible in the real world") may be true in your cynical version of the Real World, but kindly do not assert the same for the reality the rest of us inhabit. People's hearts can be changed; the production and sale pornography can be outlawed by the enforcement of extant law.

[steve-b]

I wasn't talking about making any law.
laws against porngraphy must be passed and strictly enforced

Really, if you're going to insist on denying what you wrote, you ought to try a board that doesn't provide links to the message to which a reply is directed....

[bvw]

Oh boy ... I have a couple of drill injury stories ... noty myself, thank G-d ... but wacky stuff can occur. I won't repeat them, but let's just (for one) say it's bad luck to be standing in the kiddie pool while drilling with an AC drill.

[CyberCowboy777]

I wrote it fast so it is choppy and there is some bad spellings.

But it is true.

You ever see the stone work at the Nike Campus? The split and trimmed stone came from the company I split for, same stuff.

I am proud of the time I earned a buck splitting rock. I am also proud that I worked out of it and into something I love.

[CyberCowboy777]

I would use my right hand to run the drill and apply pressure and rest the weight on my left arm. This was during side drilling.


That is how I got it caught, my arm came down by the lever and that bit grab me like a frog to fly.

[bvw]

You're lucky -- I've seen drills act as mucle and tendon extractors.

[CyberCowboy777]

My luck knew no bounds during that job.

We had more than a few broken feet and fingers.

Had few fingers come off.

Worse was the guy that got rolled over by a 8 or 10 ton boulder..... and lived.

The one time in history you can be sure a man thanked God for the rain of the Northwest and all that damn mud!

[biblewonk]

Offended?

[B-Chan]

You said: "As for the nutritive aspects, it is an objective fact that if you eat too much, you will get fat and suffer various unfortunate health consequences (or purge yourself and suffer various other unfortunate health consequences). The negative health consequences of viewing nekkid people, or of being viewed nekkid (if it's warm enough to disrobe in reasonable comfort) have yet to be demonstrated."

I replied: "Really? What about mental and emotional health?"

You said: "If you can't measure it, you can't make laws for it. If you disagree about the need for objective science as a guide to policy, then you'll want to run along to the DUmpster to pledge your support for Algore's environmental agenda."

I replied: "I wasn't talking about making any law. Please reread my post."

In the first context of our conversation, we were discussing the impact of pornongraphy on human mental and emotional health, not legal policy. As one can clearly see from the above verbatim exchange, you were the one who suddenly started talking about making law, not I. Therefore, I stand by my comment that I wasn't talking about making any law. I wasn't -- not in the context of the subject being discussed (mental and emotinal impact).

In a later exchange, when we were discussing legal policy, I did say that "laws against porngraphy must be passed and strictly enforced", but by then we were discussing a different topic.

You had no responses to my arguments, choosing instead to engage in parsimony and ad hominem. With this in mind, further discussion between us seems pointless. I stand by my assertion that pornography is degrading and pernicious.

[discostu]

Great, your kids your judgement call. I actually sat down over dinner last night to think of worse jobs than porn, only took about 30 seconds: bike courier, very high fatility rate and the people die stupidly (run over by cars, not heroically like police, firemen or soldiers). As bad as the personal toll of porn is (and I'm in complete agreement, though I think some of it is chicken and egg, while people come out of it messed up I think they don't go into it particularly healthy either) messed up and alive is better than dead.

I just think it's a weak arguement. Next time you see a bike courier under the wheels of a cab put your daughter's face there. Next time some pimply faced dork asks if you want fries with that put your son's face there. It's weak. There's tons of jobs you can make that arguement against, some of which American society absolutely cannot function without (like your old quarry job, terrbile crappy job I wouldn't wish on an enemy, now imagine what happens to America if we have no more new stone to build with).

[discostu]

See, applies just as well. Luckily my wife and I aren't jewelry oriented and record needle diamonds don't come from Africa (African diamonds are too good for that). Of course if we completely boycotted the African diamond industry (and presumably gold which has just as horrid conditions) South Africa would have no hope of fixing their economy and we're consigning them to eternal poverty. And there really isn't much that can be done to fix the industry, most of the problem is that conditions underground just suck.

[steve-b]

I stand by my comment that I wasn't talking about making any law. I wasn't -- not in the context of the subject being discussed (mental and emotinal impact)

You either are or are not. This attempt to finesse the issue is worthy of Bill Clinton.

You had no responses to my arguments

That's because you haven't offered any arguments -- just statements of what you find objectionable. The two are not interchangeable.

[ArGee]

And actually no we think of it very much the same, that's my point.

If you expressed yourself at all well in your writing, we don't think of sex at all the same way.

Shalom.

[discostu]

Funny because you seemed to say the exact same thing about contemplated other people (specifically blood relatives) doing the deed that I did. And yet you insist we think very differently.

[ArGee]

Funny because you seemed to say the exact same thing about contemplated other people (specifically blood relatives) doing the deed that I did. And yet you insist we think very differently.

What I said is that I don't contemplate people having sex. You seem to. I have no problem with it - even the screaming, curling of toes, scratching of backs, etc, between my daughters and their husbands. But I generally have better things to think about than how people have sex. Sex is not a spectator sport (even in one's mind). I no more spend time envisioning people having sex than I spend time envisioning them taking a dump.

That was my point.

Shalom.

[discostu]

come on ArGee I've got more respect for you than that, please don't lie about what I've said. I've clearly stated on multiple occasions that I don't like contemplating it, it's icky.

[ArGee]

Seems to me you are the one who said you describe it to people, complete with hand motions and a high, squeaky voice.

But I don't need to carry this further.

Shalom.

[discostu]

Sometimes you have to contemplate icky stuff to make a point, more important sometimes you have to make other people contemplate icky stuff to make a point. Try explaining what a Daisy Cutter does to the human body and how that equates to there being a good chance we'll never find OBL's body without getting into some pretty icky territory.

[ArGee]

I have read your comments and I am not going to ignore you, but we must agree to disagree here. This all started with the idea that pornography is immoral because it reduces people to things. Somebody suggested you wouldn't want your own daughter reduced to a thing in that way. That's when you spoke up, even though you have no daughters. Many who do have daughters, including myself, said we have no problem knowing what our daughters do with our sons-in-law but we don't contemplate it because we are anti-pornography.

Hopefully you understand my point. If you still disagree I will continue to think highly of you as a FReeper and a human being.

Shalom.

[discostu]

I'll say this ArGee, you've got class.