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Iraq's Rebuke to the NRA
Slate.com ^ | 03/14/2003 | Timothy Noah

Posted on 03/14/2003 5:35:36 PM PST by Pitchfork

In the March 11 New York Times, Neil MacFarquhar notes in passing, "Most Iraqi households own at least one gun." This comes as a shock to those of us who've been hearing for years from the gun lobby that widespread firearms ownership is necessary to prevent the United States from becoming a police state. Here, via the National Rifle Association's Web site, is Bill Pryor, attorney general of Alabama, decrying the "war on guns": "In a republic that promotes a free society, as opposed to a police state, one of the basic organizing principles is that individuals have a right of self-defense and a right to acquire the means for that defense." The basic Jeffersonian idea is that you never know when you'll need to organize a militia against your government. In director John Milius' camp Cold War classic Red Dawn, Russians and Nicaraguan commies take over the United States in part by throwing gun owners in jail. In one memorable scene, the camera pans from a bumper sticker that says "You'll Take My Gun Away When You Pry It From My Cold, Dead Fingers" to a Russian soldier prying a gun from the car owner's … you get the idea.

The obvious question raised by MacFarquhar's piece is how Iraq got to be, and remains, one of the world's most repressive police states when just about everyone is packing heat. Chatterbox invites gun advocates (and Iraq experts) to e-mail (to chatterbox@slate.com) plausible reasons. The best of these will be examined in a follow-up item.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 2ndammendment; banglist; constitution; disarmament; firearms; gunlaws; guns; insurrection; iraq; kickme; law; lefties; militia; militias; nra; rebellion; secondammendment; selfdefense; slate; sleeper; timothynoah; troll; zotbait
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To: Pitchfork
Original intent is a particular interpretation doctrine, there are others

LOL, they really let you teach students? God bless America.

Have you ever heard of the Federalist Papers? The second amendment is clear, the right of the PEOPLE to keep and bear arms shall NOT be abridged. The second amendment is second for a reason and the 14th applies it to the states. Comprende'?

Would you care to address the problem you face of the liberal scholar Lawrence Tribe being on my side here Pitch?

61 posted on 03/14/2003 6:44:28 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Jhoffa_
That's easy:

All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.


The House of Representatives shall be composed of members chosen every second year by the people of the several states..

To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.


62 posted on 03/14/2003 6:44:47 PM PST by Pitchfork
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To: Pitchfork
I am still waiting, you know..

Where is this Federal power to be found in our Constitution?

And be specific please..

63 posted on 03/14/2003 6:45:49 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: Pitchfork
Like religions, all make the claim they are the true way; all are probably wrong.

Let me guess, you're also opposed to "one nation under God".

64 posted on 03/14/2003 6:46:21 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Pitchfork
Original intent is a particular interpretation doctrine, there are others. Like religions, all make the claim they are the true way; all are probably wrong.

I have small school children who are quite capable of understanding original intent merely by reading the writings of those who founded our republic.

Either your reading comprehension skills are not as good as theirs, or you are just plain too lazy to read.

65 posted on 03/14/2003 6:46:37 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Pitchfork
Original intent is a particular interpretation doctrine, there are others

The others are called judicial activism and it is where liberals and freedom haters use the courts to make law that can't be passed through state legislatures or congress. It's also a favorite weapon of ambulance chasing friends of yours like Geoff Fieger.

66 posted on 03/14/2003 6:47:05 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Don't tread on me")
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To: Pitchfork
The obvious question raised by MacFarquhar's piece is how Iraq got to be, and remains, one of the world's most repressive police states when just about everyone is packing heat.

Well, Timothy Noah (writer) may not be aware of Saddam's chemical and biological weapons (paper, scissors, rock... chemical weapons outgun handguns, duh), but the Iraqi people are sure aware of them as indicated in the story about the run on birds in Iraq by a population that is anticipating their dictator will be using it on them.

67 posted on 03/14/2003 6:47:28 PM PST by hotpotato
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To: EternalVigilance
Either your reading comprehension skills are not as good as theirs, or you are just plain too lazy to read.

I'll pick answer C. Has his/her own agenda.

68 posted on 03/14/2003 6:48:04 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Don't tread on me")
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To: Pitchfork
Well, I'll give ya this much. At least you're sticking around to engage a debate. Even though I don't agree with anything you've said so far, congrats!
69 posted on 03/14/2003 6:48:14 PM PST by RandallFlagg ("There are worse things than crucifixion...There are teeth.")
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To: Pitchfork
Try harder, as that's at odds with the tenth..

Again, where is this federal "power"

and be specific..

70 posted on 03/14/2003 6:48:34 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: Pitchfork
The court doesn't appear to share the NRA's veiw on the second ammendment at this time

You made this declarative statement and you are flat out wrong.

Now what I would like to know is if you teach your students this.

Do you?

71 posted on 03/14/2003 6:49:04 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: jwalsh07

I frankly doubt he's a teacher..

72 posted on 03/14/2003 6:50:07 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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To: Pitchfork
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.

That would be the powers listed in Article I, section VI. Those not listed there, fall under that pesky thing called the 10th Amendment.

73 posted on 03/14/2003 6:50:09 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Don't tread on me")
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To: Pitchfork
I always thought the "we need guns to defend ourselves from the government" argument was a load of nonsense and a refuge for those who wanted to avoid a cost-benefit discussion centered on the real issues of crime and violence.

Then you are extremely misinformed. The purpose of the 2nd Amendment is to allow the public to violently overthrow the government if it is ever necessary.

74 posted on 03/14/2003 6:50:44 PM PST by DAnconia55
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To: Jhoffa_
I hope you're right.
75 posted on 03/14/2003 6:50:59 PM PST by Dan from Michigan ("Don't tread on me")
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To: Jhoffa_
I frankly doubt he's a teacher..

I frankly doubt he's an American...

76 posted on 03/14/2003 6:51:15 PM PST by jwalsh07
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To: Pitchfork
Well, sure, there's a gun in every household - but Uncle Saddam has all the ammo.
77 posted on 03/14/2003 6:51:34 PM PST by Tennessee_Bob (Dieses sieht wie ein Job nach Dringlichkeitshosen aus!)
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To: Pitchfork
The constitution of course only has power when it is interpreted and implemented by the Court.

Wrong. The Constitution has no power at all- it is an inanimate scrap of vellum. Neither does the judiciary, although they are more animated. Ask the Cherokee about how powerful the courts are.

The government derives its powers from the consent of the governed, and maintains them only so long as the governed are willing to suffer it. Without cooperation, either willingly or through coercion, government will cease to exist no matter how impressive the scrap of paper called a constitution, no matter how much powder a judge puts on his wig or how authoritative his voice.

Without a police force or an army willing and able to execute the law (or dissidents) , a judge is just a lone man in a silly robe.

The problem with "teachers" is that they have little skill in discerning cold, hard reality from feel-good theory.

78 posted on 03/14/2003 6:52:21 PM PST by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: Pitchfork
I teach american government!

God save us from people like you.

Obviously you aren't an NRA member. How about the NEA? Do you belong?

79 posted on 03/14/2003 6:52:23 PM PST by EternalVigilance
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To: Dan from Michigan

You and me both..

But if he is, I hope he lurks on FR.. Learns and comes back as one of us.

There's nothing the fury of a fresh convert.

80 posted on 03/14/2003 6:53:00 PM PST by Jhoffa_ (Yes, there is sexual tension between Sammy & Frodo.)
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